sorry! i replied without refreshing the page on my phone, so i didnt see the most recent posts till just now, thats why i replied again! i do apologise!
i am reading through your original one now 
im trying to get a clear understanding
My honest opinion is that this sounds like a mess. I’m glad you guys had a good time yesterday, but it sounds like he has some very serious issues that he needs to work out, and if you two do get back together, what is the likelihood that they will not only negatively affect your relationship, but you as well?
Also, again this is just my opinion/playing devils advocate, but are you really ok with this not-relationship thing? I know that you told him that you are, but in my experience, doing something like this and crossing your fingers that it will end up in a committed relationship usually just ends with people getting hurt. If you are actually ok with it then that is one thing, but make sure that you are being honest to yourself. From where I’m standing, it seems like the perfect setup to get hurt again.
I agree that no contact for a few days might be good to sort out your thoughts. Its too bad that he takes it so personally, but this is about you and your mental health - I think him getting irrationally angry like that is just another symptom of some larger disease. If it gets bad, then I would tell him you need a few days, but sacrificing and compromising yourself to appease him isn’t going to do anyone any good.
Again, just my opinion.
id say this to everyone in a relationship. both of you need to clearly understand eachothers point of view before even attempting to sort it out together. note how i said together, because that is what a relationship is all about. being able to fully communicate about anything, confidently. that way, problems fix themselves automatically.
and of course there is a positive outcome. there always is, otherwise, why would you be fighting for it? and since you are, deep down you know it can work. but its just convincing him and vice versa that it can. proving to each other and just note things also take time, it took time to get to this stage, so it will take time to get out of it. not something that will happen overnight! always keep that in mind!
but do realize you may get hurt again if you jump back to the relationship together with things unsolved. these things are quite serious and you need to get a clear head about it. both of you do. and then you can make it work.
All I have to say is that he is back!
So, I just got back from talking to my case worker at my university this morning. I’ve been seeing her for the past couple weeks, and she seems to have a very grounded, insightful opinion on how things are working out for me. This includes both positive and negatives actions I’m taking, as well as how I might better interpret how my ex is acting and work towards finding comfortable, solid, healthy ground for the two of us. I’m warning ahead of time that this post is probably going to be very long, but I’m definitely interested to see if anyone agrees with her in my specific situation and I also think there’s a lot of insight other people in similar situations could take away from this.
The first thing that we addressed or talked about is this idea that we are no longer in a relationship, he says he wants to be single, and yet his actions completely speak otherwise. I’ve heard the “unofficial relationship” or “you’re still dating” comment enough times from people on this board and from her to comfortably believe my gut when it tells me that this is not how people who are normally broken up act. The biggest issue she told me that she currently sees for us is that I’m so set in MY ideas of what “breaking up” means or what “being single” is defined as or what a “relationship” is that I’m hurting myself because I can’t understand that he may not see things in the way I do. When I think of being single, I think of not having someone to depend on, not having someone I’m romantically or sexually involved with on a regular basis, not having a commitment, etc. She told me to stop and consider (but obviously not assume) that his definition of being single might be different. To him, being single may mean not living together, not having a commitment to seeing each other every day, and not being overly romantic, but it may not include shutting each other out, dating other people, avoiding each other, etc. Her challenge to me on this is to try and figure out what he means when he says he broke up with me and he wants to be single. That if I can figure out what that entails for him, I can better work off of that to see if my needs and wants are being met by what he is willing to give me. In all honesty, the only thing I truly want from him at this point is for him not to see other people. I don’t care if we take things slower or aren’t as romantic as we used to be. I don’t care if we don’t see each other every day or if we sleep over less or don’t call/text much in the mean time. I don’t care if we don’t have an official title. I do care about us seeing other people, so if I can get a grounded definition as to whether or not that exclusivity is in the cards, I can decide whether this is something that works for me or not. I obviously would not encourage everyone to go out and speak to their exes about what the status of their relationship entails and what that person is wanting right now. But if you’re in a situation similar to mind, having those defined boundaries seems like it has the potential to help us going really far in determining what we are and are not willing to put up with.
The second thing she talked to me about was my general hesitation and passivity within our previous relationship and our current whatever the hell this is. I have a tendency or learned habit to shy away from situations where I have to initiate contact or communication, and I have a tendency to take a lack of invitation as a flat out rejection. In other words, I essentially do what my ex does, I just handle it differently and I didn’t realize I was even doing it. Her example for me was to think of last night. I walked home at 1:30 in the morning, I was exhausted, and all I wanted was just to curl up in bed with him and stay the night. She asked me whether or not I’d addressed this need/want with him, and I told her know. She then asked me how I acted or responded at the end of the night once our movie was over, and I told her that I put on my shoes and grabbed my purse and said good night to him before leaving. I was then asked to put myself in his shoes and consider what I would’ve been thinking in his situation, if he’d been at my house and then started getting his things together. I would’ve immediately assumed he didn’t want to stay, otherwise he would’ve asked if he could. She reminded me that that goes both ways. That being passive or assuming he has to expressly give me permission for something to be okay can often times come across as a lack of interest to the other party. Is there any guarantee he would’ve let me stay or been okay with it if I’d asked? Of course not. But given the context of how the rest of the night went, is it safe to say that he liked having me there and was comfortable with me and may have been happy to let me sleep with him, had I asked? Of course.
She told me that in the psychology world, or in terms of people who look at relationships, this kind of tit-for-tat game is usually referred to as “bids”. Any time we talk to someone, make eye contact, smile at them, make plans with them, have physical contact with them, etc. in a positive manner, we are making an emotional bid on that person. There are of course negative bids as well. The general consensus is that if you can have a ratio of five positive bids for every one negative bid you experience, than the relationship (be it romantic or friendly) is probably a solid one. In my situation, being involved with someone who sees things like I do and takes silence or lack of invitation as rejection, no contact actually can make things worse. Obviously this doesn’t mean I need to call and text him 24/7, but it means that me staying silent, not sending him a text message, taking ten hours to reply, etc. are all negative bids in my case. This has a lot to with why he tends to shut down, ignore me, act “butt hurt”, or seem cold after we’ve gone through periods of time of not talking or him constantly initiating contact. He’s been continually doing or saying things that are positive bids, and my lack of a response or lack of initiating the same kind of things are negative bids that outweigh any progress we’ve made. A prime example of this is when I was working Friday night. I got there and he wouldn’t talk to me or look at me. We hadn’t communicated over text in two days and I hadn’t asked him for a ride in that day. I’d given him nothing but negative bids. Obviously, I’m not the only one who should have to put in effort here, but that explains his behavior. When I started chatting with him, trying to help him get his job duties done, smiling, catching his eye when he walked by, he was getting the positives from me, and that’s why he slowly started warming up to the point he was waiting for me at the end of the night to give me a ride home. It also explains why when the ride didn’t work out, his texting behavior went back to being cold. As stated before, the way these bids work should not be used as an excuse for our partners to treat us poorly or act immaturely and pout. That being said, at least from my perspective, I see these as a really good way of understanding my ex’s behavior and why I get the responses I do from certain actions I take. He told me last night that he feels guilty or like he uses me because I do not initiate plans or physical contact with him. I give him negative bids on that front, so he feels negative emotions in return. IT MAKES SENSE!
The last thing she really addressed was this idea of guilt that people in my shoes seem to feel. In my case, I feel a whole lot of guilt and feel very negative because I feel like I have all these needs that aren’t being met and he feels the same way for the same reason. The difference is that he feels like his needs aren’t being met because I’m not meeting him halfway. I’m assuming that if I don’t hear from him, he doesn’t want to talk. That if he doesn’t make plans, he doesn’t want to see me. I’m leaving the ball in his court every single time, and it gets exhausting to him because at the end of the day, everyone wants to feel loved and appreciated and like the other person cares enough to step up to the plate. And he’s not getting that from me. On my side, my needs aren’t being met because I’m not saying or doing anything. I’m at a standstill and I’m making no apparent attempts to get myself moving again. I’m waiting for him to do things for me and to make them easy for me, and he can’t do that all the time. You can’t get what you don’t ask for, and he deserves more than to always have to be the one who wants me. She said if we (or at least I, as I can’t make him do anything and he hasn’t heard this) can work on this, we will both feel much less guilt and anxiety, and may start to actually be able to enjoy each other’s company and intimacy.
I’ll have to see him at work tonight for a dumb wine tasting we have to do (neither of us like wine but we work at a winery, so I guess it makes sense…) but that’s not exciting or intimate and it’s us seeing each other out of necessity, not wanting. Her final challenge to me today is to try reaching out to him. She told me that she wants me to try sending him a text or dropping him a note to let him know I’m thinking about him or that I care. That I need to take the first step at a positive bid and at being in charge and not forcing him to serve me the ball every single time. She said I should give myself two minutes to write something so it’s genuine and I don’t overthink it, to send it/do it, and then just let it go. At that point, I have served and he can respond back (she thinks he will) or he can ignore it. But either way, I can know that I did something and he can know that I care enough to take some responsibility for our interactions. I realize this goes against all of Kevin’s ideas and this is a TERRIBLE idea for people not in situations similar to mine, so take this idea with a grain of salt. But for me, I personally think it’s a great idea. I’m curious as to what y’all think about this, and everything else I’ve said.
Anyone?
This is really confusing… My biggest worry here is that he just takes you for granted and gets used to having you there and it starts dissipating and he starts slowly moving on at the same time.
If you feel that doing NC might result badly for your relationship… at some point if you see he is just comfortable, tell him that if he can’t make a decision you need time for yourself. Now I don’t exactly know how you should say it. But if someone thinks this is a good idea maybe they can give you a better sense of how.
Other than that, try to relax yourself, meditate… Listen to your gut and go with it. But you can only listen if you keep your mind quiet. It likes to put all these thoughts and doubts in our minds.
That’s my biggest worry too. I just feel like I’m balancing such a fine line here between him feeling rejected, like I don’t care, and that making him upset and me getting walked on or forgotten because nothing is changing. I mean, I’ve been speaking my mind a lot more and trying to get better at communicating what I’m thinking and feeling, which makes me feel less like a doormat and he seems to respond to it well.
I’m just trying to keep calm and breathe. It’s just hard when I feel so alone and everything is still so in limbo. I have faith things could still work out, but I feel stupid for having that faith.
I guess at the least, I went with my case worker’s challenge. I sent him a message before I headed off to class. I told him, “I was just thinking about last night and wanted to say thank you for the really amazing time. I hope you’re having a really great day so far!” He texted me back about an hour later and said, “Thank you. i hope you are too.” I guess a response is at least a positive sign. I made a first step to showing him I can initiate positive bids and he responded with a positive bid, so that’s probably about all I can hope for from him at this point. Other than that, it’s just got to be me working on my issues of being passive and a door mat and hopefully him responding well to it and me taking the reigns on some of our hang outs and physical contact.
Anyone out there?
So, long story short, I went to my work event last night and obviously saw him there. We got paid to wine taste (lucky me?) and all sat around these cute little tables we have in our wine bar. I sat with all my gal pals and he was with his events buddies at the table next to us. We didn’t talk a whole ton but exchanged some words and he smiled at me a bunch. I mostly just focused on enjoying my tiny sips of wine, eating the free pizza, and playing hangman with one of my fellow hostesses instead of paying attention to me. I caught a ride back to town with her, as I had before, and we just blasted Taylor Swift and other popular music and danced/sang along with it in the car. We apparently passed his car on the freeway, packed with people, and I didn’t notice. She said he DEFINITELY noticed me though and was watching me.
I got home and started to settle in for the night. Pajamas, popcorn, watching Friends, etc. I decided to check my texts just because it makes me feel better reading old nice messages from him sometimes and lo and behold, he’d actually messaged me about 15 minutes prior! He told me he’d swing by and drop off some candy and a jacket I’d forgotten at this place but also casually stated I could come over myself and get it if I wanted. I walked over, and we hung out for probably 45 minutes. Talked some more about Age of Ultron, ate a little of the gnocci he made for dinner, and he told me that this song he’s been writing forever (I mean like since last fall) is finally one line away from being done. We tried coming up with the line together, but failed to do so before he had to go to band practice. He dropped me off because it was pouring rain and he didn’t want me to talk and told me he’d see me soon, giving me a very detailed list of everything he had scheduled for the next couple days, even though I already knew that. I went in for a hug just to put another good bid in, and he hugged back, then drove off. Biggest thing here: He NEVER shares his lyrics or music with me. None of it. He always tells me I can’t hear it until it’s finished or complete, which is so stupid because I love all of it and that means I’ve been waiting on this for months. But he opened up and we were trying to write together and I couldn’t believe it.
I read some of your posts and it definitely seems like he wants to be there for you. Could be that he’s not sure if he wants a relationship or a commitment right now. But seems that he likes spending time with you and being around you. If he’s staying around it means he HAS some sort of feelings, I’m just not sure about his intensions, if he wants to keep being friends or something more. But what I’m sure about is that he wouldn’t keep being around you if he didn’t feel anything. I agree with everything your case worker said. You should try seeing things from his prespective too and it will make you understand his behavior as well. You should keep initiate from time to time but I think you should still let him initiate more. And try not to over thinking things because it will only make you feel confused about everything. I know what you mean by speaking about his songs. My ex writes songs too, and he never let me read them before he finished, but I helped him with lyrics sometimes. He also wrote one love song about us, which I never had the chance to read because we broke up before he finished it :\ Also now that we are sort of friends, on our last conversation he asked me to give him my advice on his last song, which he never did since the break up. I think it’s great that he’s starting to open up to you! You should stay positive!
I feel like I’ve just lost all positivity. I keep talking to people and no matter what I do, it feels like a lose/lose situation. There is no right way to do anything. I go no contact? I’m unhappy because I want to be talking to him and he’s unhappy because I’m shutting him out/giving him negative bids. I just act friendly and try to make plans without the remote possibility of allowing him intimacy/sex? Great, I’m friendzoned and he doesn’t care. I have sex with him? Woo, apparently he’s using me and not learning any lesson and has no incentive to want to be my boyfriend. I was so optimistic and happy last night/this morning, and it all just got wiped away. No matter what I do, even if it makes me happy or feels like what I want, it gets messed up and doesn’t make this situation any better.
Hey,
I’m really sorry you’re going through all of this mess. I commented my thoughts on what you posted a few posts ago, but it seems like honestly this is turning into a really unhealthy situation. You’re stuck in a lose-lose mess, and aside from walking away completely, I’m not sure that you’re really going to be able to get yourself out of it.
This may be too honest, but in my opinion, you need to stop concerning yourself with how he feels right now, and take care of yourself. You’re obviously incredibly upset but instead of helping yourself, you’re focusing your energy on him, and it’s dragging you down farther. Maybe down the road you two can/will work things out, but as it stands right now, this seems incredibly toxic and like you need to take care of yourself. I know you want to be there for him, and not do anything to upset him, but wouldn’t that be nice if he had the same considerations before he broke up with you? You both are putting him first, which isn’t healthy. You do you, and once the kinks have worked themselves out, there’s always a chance you two could try again. It seems like the issues from your relationship are still there though and haven’t had time to resolve themselves, you need to give them that time.
Also, honestly ( I do this too, and we all need to stop ), is stop overanalyzing every little thing about it. I know its so much easier said than done, but as my mom used to say “a watch pot never boils” meaning - if you stand there and analyze and stare at something, it’ll seem like its taking forever, but if you go and do something else/distract yourself, it’ll fly by.
Good luck, let me know how you’re doing
Your situation is better than what you’re thinking. The thoughts are making you worried so that’s why I think you should stop over thinking about things and just see how it plays out. He’s willing to hang out with you and being around you! It’s a great progress and you should see the positive things. I think you should keep being around him and give him these positive bids, then see his reactions and how things are going and decide what’s best to do. Are you planning on meeting up with him again this week?
I know you’re probably right. I guess it’s just these days where I know I have no hope of seeing from him or of hearing from him because of work or other life events that I start to freak myself out.
He worked an event yesterday, so he was busy all day. He’s unfortunately on a double today and tomorrow as well. I’ll be on the dinner shift tomorrow night, we’ll work together all day Saturday, and then have the morning shift together Sunday. But other than lots of time at work together, no concrete plans or anything yet. I thought I’d maybe see if he wanted to do something Sunday night, but I’m hesitating on whether that is a good idea or not. The most that’s happened is that I sent him a text yesterday saying “It appears someone has been playing hide and go seek with us!”, in relation to the fact that I “found” (I’ve known where it is for like a week and a half now, but he’s still been searching for it) his old phone so we could try to get mine working again. He didn’t respond until he got off the event, at which point I was asleep, and he said, “What do you mean!” I’ve yet to reply, but I will.
His mom also sent me a facebook message yesterday. She told me she hopes I’m having a great week and asked how I’m doing. We made small talk about mother’s day and her presents. She used to send me messages like that all the time when my ex and I were dating, just checking in and what not, and she hasn’t in a really long time. I just thought that was interesting. I know she didn’t/doesn’t do that with his other exes or his brother’s exes because I’m friends with one of them.
Hey between, so it does appear we have some similarities in that our ex can’t let us go, but in a way they have been a bit inappropriate with us. Correct me if I’m wrong but you have had sex with him since you’ve broken up ? I see you have given some very good advice on the forums here and whilst we can dish out the good advice its hard for us to use it ourselves haha I know I’m guilty of that ! Like I mentioned on the other post we are currently giving up our power to our exes and they know it and they will certainly notice it when we take it back as well ! I don’t think we need to be harsh or cruel about it, I don’t want to behave the way my ex has treated me, we need to rise above it all and show them they we are so much more mature.
In regards to my situation, my ex this last week has been contacting me quite a bit and we met up for the first time two weeks ago and it went well, I couldn’t get rid of him he stayed for three hours checking out the new place i just moved into. He also hugged me quite a few times and at the end pulled me in for a double hug, yet throughout the meeting he put his hand out to shake my hand saying “friends” lol like wtf was that hey. Then last week he messaged me on the weekend after he had about 5 beers and it started out generally chatting when all of a sudden it changed. He started being really sexual and inappropriate. He knows that I can’t just do that as it means something to me. However in that chat i suggested we go for coffee next week after his all important new career interview and said we should have drinks with his roomie. He then messaged me the next night saying his roomie was keen to have drinks and stuff and again the convo turned sexual. A couple nights later the same thing happened. Then the next night a friend of mine had really hurt me and so I needed advice and went to him as a friend like he had offered. He was pretty harsh and rude and in the things he said indicated like he thought I would behave the same and was quite upsetting. After the serious talk he started making the sexual comments again and I was like I can’t do this with you I still have feelings and emotions and its too hard, I can’t just turn off like you. I thought I’d screwed it up pretty much by telling him how I felt, he in a way agreed saying it was hard. But again last night he messaged me just regarding how cold it was but i didn’t get it till this morning. I feel like there a little signs but the more obvious sign is that he just wants to use me 
Yes, I have slept with my ex a couple of times since we’ve been broken up. I think we’ve been together maybe four times now, and it’s been a little over a month since it ended.
That sounds like a tough situation. It’s really hard for me to make out whether he’s just using you or not, if I’m being honest. I mean, there definitely still appears to be some emotional attachment, but I don’t have enough details to say whether that’s stronger than his sexual desires. I know that from my point of view/in my situation, our interactions that have nothing to do with sex outweigh those that do. He spends much more time texting me about random things, talking to me at work, or doing activities (hiking, watching movies, making dinner, etc.) than we do anything sexual. Is there a chance he’s just using me? Of course there is. That being said, I find it really hard to believe that a guy would act the way he does before and after, or spend that much time with me, just to get laid. If that’s solely what he wanted, it seems like he’d ask, get some, and then leave. If I were you, I’d try to objectively look at his actions overall and see how many of them are sexual and how many aren’t. Also, try to look at how he reacts when you shut him down for sex. Does he continue talking to you or die off?
I personally would stop sleeping with your ex. I did the same the last time my ex and I broke up as I thought it was a sign. We did eventually get back together but I’m not too sure as to why. However even the most emotional of men can turn off their feelings when it comes to sex so keep that in mind if you think you’re keeping that emotional attachment alive.
And like I said the sexual stuff just came out of no where, we’re having a chat that he initiated (perhaps due to some liquid courage :P) and them bam. However I’m not sure if a couple of the times he’s suggested it its because he’s had a couple of drinks. He also tells me in convos that he uses photos of me from when we were together for his own personal pleasure these days. My ex has also taken the time to tell me about things that are going on including his big interview and moving forward fr his new career change which I was very supportive of when we were together. A couple of times the convo has continued other times its just died off as I would end the convo and he’s like “just thought I’d let you know I’m using your pics, not sure why lol” and stuff like that.
I don’t think that simply sleeping with him is going to win him back or that sex keeps us emotionally attached. I know guys can detach pretty easily. The fact of the matter just happens to be that I’ve wanted him, he’s wanted me, and while he’s made no comments about getting back together or anything, I know him and I know he’s not just using me. Guys that just want sex do not go out of their way to do the things he does for me.
Yeah, that’s a really tough one. It’s hard for me to tell whether or not he’s really just all about the sex, or whether there’s more to it than that. Guys are just so hard to read.
Well I’ve felt the same about my ex and him having sex with me. As last ear when we broke up he played all these games back then as well and I told him how much it hrt me and he said he wouldn’t do it again yet here he is playing these games again. So I sort of want to have sex wkth him because I have needs lol and also because he is not a slut and not one to use me but then again I’m also not sure as I know he’s been on tinder. He was on tinder last year like two days after we broke up. So he’s followijg what he did last year almost to a tee except he hasn’t indicated that he wants to get back together like h did last year except when he did that last year he would fuck me around a lot and be like oh I’m not feeling it anymore