How would going on this trip with my ex affect my chances?

My ex-girlfriend broke up with me late on Valentine’s Day :frowning: after a bit over a year together. After reflecting for 3 days, I’ve concluded that the relationship didn’t work out because 1. I wasn’t showing her enough love and affection and instead started to take her for granted; 2. She was bored because I wouldn’t put in the effort unless I was in person, and even then it sometimes didn’t seem genuine; 3. We’re living apart in China right now, and normally I would go to her house every weekend and spend time with her there, but due to the coronavirus, we’ve both been locked at home which means we’ve practically been doing long-distance for the last month; 4. I was probably spending TOO much time with her in the past, and we moved too quickly. The day of Valentine’s Day, she was sick the whole day and stayed asleep till 7pm, and I didn’t do anything for the occasion. I got her a gift that hasn’t even arrived on time because of the virus, but I didn’t even bother making a Facebook post for her, which was the LEAST I could do. Yet I didn’t, and I made up excuses but now I know there was no use. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back, and she told me Valentine’s Day was a day meant for us to celebrate our love and rekindle the passion. At this point, I decided to be stubborn and not communicate properly (i.e. excuses like “coronavirus is keeping us apart,” “i was waiting for you to wake up”, etc.), and she ultimately decided to end it. She had given me a couple chances before that earlier in our relationship, and I promised I’d change, but after hearing her say she’d stay with me, I guess that sense of urgency went away and I didn’t. She told me she should have broken up with me 4 months ago (but then she later said the last 4 months have been fun and she doesn’t regret it). Yeah, I’m a bonehead.

Since the break-up, I haven’t contacted her, and she hasn’t contacted me. I’ve been missing her a lot these days, and the break-up was like a massive roundhouse kick in the face and a real wake-up call and catalyst for intense reflection, both on myself, on her, and on the dynamic of the relationship. My time with her was amazing. We had initially started out as best friends (100% platonic) after she opened up to me about feeling lonely and abandoned; she was my “wing-woman” and I was her “wingman”, but after a few months, we started to really enjoy each other’s presence and eventually fell for each other. There was also an intense emotional connection, because I helped her through her phase of extreme depression and helped her graduate when she was on the verge of failing some of her courses, and I also played a role in helping her mend her toxic relationship with her mother. She had helped get me through my low points as well. The sex was amazing for both of us, and we did it often. We fought once in a while, but we’d resolve things quickly every time. We had one big fight that stemmed from one of my past relationships butting back into my life, but we both got over it after about 1.5 weeks after talking through it.

We had been planning a trip to Japan together and with another friend since April of last year. Although we haven’t booked anything yet, we were all looking forward to the trip, and she told me “I’m still happy to go to Japan with you as long as you’re okay with it.” The trip’s in early June (1 week with a friend, 1 week just the two of us) and after that, we’ll be going to California together for a week before we spend another 2 months or so apart, and we’ll both be moving to the same area in NYC after that.

Right after breaking up, she told me “I’m happy to stay friends with you because you’ve been such an amazing part of my life and there’s no way I could ever resent you or dislike you, especially after all you’ve done for me. But if you don’t believe that exes can ever be friends, I’ll respect that, too.” I’ve started NC, and I’m not sure if this will give off the impression that I want nothing to do with her, but that’s another question (if someone could give me clarity on that, I’d appreciate it!). In the last 3 days, I’ve committed to going to the gym, eating healthier, and changing up my wardrobe (I had always been planning on it, anyway; she’s also a fashion designer, and my poor taste in clothes was always a pet peeve of hers and others lol). It hurts not to be able to talk to her, especially since she was like my safe haven and the person I could go to for ANYTHING. Although it’s been harder to sleep and eat and get up in the mornings, I’d say I’m doing how I expected.

How do I maintain NC but also tell her that I would still like to go on that trip all our friends were looking forward to (we share the same group of friends, but only 1 is accompanying us on the trip)? Should I still go on the part of the trip where it’s only the two of us? There’s still 4 months to the trip, but of course I’d need to contact her much before that in order to book tickets and hotels and whatnot. Assuming I will have made positive changes to my life and made myself a happier, more attractive person, would the trip be advantageous in re-attracting her? Or should I attempt to build up most of the re-attraction before the trip (my concern is it’ll be like rebuilding a long distance relationship, since I don’t know when this coronavirus debacle will be over)? I’ll have ~2 weeks with her in Japan, 2 more in China, and 1 more in California. Sorry for such a long post, but I really appreciate all of your help!

@paulolondra You mention 2 weeks in China, but aren’t you already in China?

I think it’s possible to re-attract her starting now… Since you took her for granted and didn’t put in much effort during the relationship, it’s time to start putting in more effort! So unless she asked you not to contact her, start sending texts or better yet (emails) to let her know your true feelings. Send cute love notes with flower emoji things. Give her compliments. Tell her of your efforts to improve yourself.

Take care and wishing both of you the best:) And be careful about the coronavirus! It’s been on the news daily here in the US.

Thank you for your kind reply! Yes, we’ll be back in China after Japan (assuming the trip is still a go) for 2 weeks to spend some time with our families before we relocate to the States.

My initial instinct was to do the things you listed, although I’m concerned that I’ll come off as insincere and just desperate to get her back, especially since I initially didn’t take the break-up too well (I didn’t throw a fit or anything, but I was quite emotional and asked for another chance).

@paulolondra Don’t ask to get back together yet. Go slowly and don’t get too mushy about your feelings. Send some funny things occasionally too like cartoons or jokes. You didn’t put in much effort before so giving her more attention now will in itself show that you care. In the past, I’m sure she felt neglected and unloved…

PS: Why are you relocating to the US? Are you planning on making the move together or living together etc…??

We’ll be going there for grad school! We just happened to end up at two different schools in the same area, around a 10 min walk away from each other. We were talking about living together at some point in NY, but not immediately (maybe after our first year there).

Btw, one of our mutual friends contacted me saying my ex and I need distance from each other and that “it’s okay to eventually get to talking terms”, and she “doesn’t seem to completely want nothing to do with you.” What do you think?

I’ve also been reading some books on relationships and emotional intelligence I’ve always been meaning to take a look at but put off, so I hope I’ll get to convey my effort in this regard. Thank you so much for your replies! I appreciate your help :slight_smile:

@paulolondra You wrote:"Btw, one of our mutual friends contacted me saying my ex and I need distance from each other and that “it’s okay to eventually get to talking terms” – were those her words about eventually talking?

Have you been doing no contact for some days now? I don’t think you should keep it too long since you made her feel neglected during the relationship! You need to show more interest!

Glad you’re reading material regarding relationships. There should always be kindness and respect. There would be disagreements, but they need to be handled properly. No shouting, cussing, hurtful words etc… Calmly discussing issues with input from both partners and respect for opinions is key… Arguments are one of the major cause of resentments and breakups.

Women want a man who is self-confident, affectionate, and lots of loving words. Sometimes flowers or little gifts at no particular time to show love. Giving advice when asked. Showing support sometimes by just listening and empathizing.

You seem very nice and I’m pretty sure over time she will want to be with you again:)

I just contacted her again for the first time since the break-up! I sent her a text asking if she had a minute to call, and she seemed excited to hear from me again. We called, and it was a very friendly atmosphere, not tense at all. I began the call by basically apologizing for my behavior and explaining that I was taking steps to improve myself as a person and that I was sorry it had to come to a break-up for me to realize I needed to change. I also clarified I wasn’t calling to ask for her back, and that I respected her decision to break up. She responded very positively, and she said she was impressed by how quickly I seemed to mature, but (half-jokingly) said it was “a shame you couldn’t change like this 4 months ago.”

We eventually just started making some small talk, talked about how we’ve spent the last few days, and shared a couple of laughs. I told her I was glad to finally hear her voice again, and she seemed quite touched. She told me she was reflecting on our relationship and said she honestly wished she ended it four months earlier when it began turning sour, and also said she sees our relationship as a “glorified friendship” in retrospect, which I just laughed at. Eventually, I ended up asking if she missed me, and she honestly admitted that she didn’t particularly miss me as a person, but rather the security of being in a relationship. I told her I understood. We then talked about our trip to Japan and other summer plans I talked about in the original post, and she said she was happy to still go, but she was considering bringing another girl along to make things “less awkward” (the original plan was just me, her, and another guy friend; any thoughts?). Later, we both realized that the gift I sent her for Valentine’s Day had finally arrived (a silver bracelet with a blue gem and our names engraved), and she opened it while on the phone with me.

I heard her start to cry, and before I knew it she was practically bawling once she saw the engravings. She told me that she loved the bracelet, but that the whole situation felt “tragic” and “like a big f*** you from the world, like karma for ending things with you and not even feeling that sad about it afterwards.” And she ended up telling me that she genuinely misses me. I tried not to make the situation too serious, so I cracked a few jokes and she laughed and we playfully teased each other for a little bit, although I was getting quite emotional as well. Overall the aura was just very bittersweet. We ended up reminiscing on our favorite moments during our relationship.

After that, she asked if I was looking forward to life being single, and I told her I wasn’t ready to answer that question yet. I asked her the same question, and she said not really, and that she wasn’t eager to look for someone new. But she said she was thinking about possibilities of what awaits in the future in terms of new significant others. She also mentioned soon after that she felt like our relationship wasn’t going anywhere, and that she’s glad we’re just staying friends. I didn’t say anything in response, I just said “yeah” and stayed silent afterwards. She also mentioned she was somewhat worried about the awkwardness of us staying friends since we share the same friend group. After this, the tone turned a little less warm, and she started speaking to me a little more coldly (like she was starting to become uncomfortable), so I decided to tell her I had to go to bed. I told her good luck on her work and said good night. I ended the convo by sending her a text thanking her for giving me 2 hours of her time to speak with her and that I was glad to hear about how she’s been.

Overall, I’m very happy with how the interaction went, but I’m worried that I’m starting to fall into the “friendzone,” where she’ll see me as just another one of her friends she can gossip with and completely block off any chance of a future romantic relationship. Especially since she admitted she saw our relationship as a “glorified friendship.” I want to somehow convey that I still want to be a romantic option without making her feel uncomfortable, and also figure out a way to attract her over time without her just labeling my actions as friendly gestures. It’s probably a little bit harder, since she implied she lost most of her romantic love for me four months ago, but part of me believes some fraction of her still has feelings for me, although she’s a very independent person and is very in touch with her emotions, and is the last person I would think to doubt her feelings and end up wanting an ex back; after all, she’s been convincing herself this was the right decision for 4 months. Even though she was overwhelmed with emotion during the call, she never expressed any regret in breaking up with me and always reinforced that it was the right move. Any advice? I really don’t want to blow my chances at this point, I’m pretty nervous!

@paulolondra You contacted her and that shows interest:) It’s nice she agreed to talk on the phone and overall sounds like a good conversation. I agree that her taking another girl on the trip would make it less awkward for both of you. Glad she liked the bracelet, but too bad she received it after Valentine’s day and after the breakup. And yet it showed her that you cared very deeply for her!

You wrote in your first post that you concluded that you didn’t show her enough love and affection which were reasons for the breakup. You also mentioned somewhere in your posts about your clothing, but what reasons did she give you when she broke up with you? You also mentioned she gave you a chance to change, but you didn’t. What changes did she want you to make?

During the call you apologized, told her you were improving yourself, and clarified you weren’t calling to ask for her back. But I think she instinctively knows that you do want her back. And you wrote:“…she ended up telling me that she genuinely misses me.” That’s a good sign!

The friend group shouldn’t have anything to do with whether or not you have a friendship with your ex. . Maybe they would be surprised, but deep down, I don’t think they much care one way or the other.

I know you want to let her know that you still want a romantic relationship with her, but at this time, it would probably make her feel very uncomfortable as it’s only been 5 days since the breakup, even though she thought about it 4 months ago.

Between now and the trip, you might text or call (maybe once a week or so) to show more interest and concern, but I’m not sure if you should say “I’ve missed you”. And yet, I don’t think it would really do any harm as that’s the truth and she probably knows it.

During the trip there might be an opportunity to express your feelings if she gives you an opening. But don’t spend too much time with her talking about trivial things. There will be other guy to spend time with too. Depending on how she interacts with you, it might be better to wait to express yourself until after the trip. And maybe, just maybe, during one of your phone calls, she might be willing to talk about the possibility of re-uniting. For instance; if she mentions again that the breakup was the right move, you could ask her “Are you sure and without any doubts?” Or something like that…

You might start out by asking her if she would consider reconciliation. And what she wants from a man in order to feel loved and appreciated… What is her idea of a happy relationship… What you could do and say to increase your chances of re-uniting… etc…

Wishing you good luck:)

@patricia12 Thank you for the reply! 4 months ago, during our big fight, we sat down and talked about what she wanted me to change about myself. It was a very long conversation, but we boiled it down to 5 things:

  1. She wanted me to be more proactive in keeping the relationship exciting by taking her out on more interesting dates instead of just dinners and movie nights, etc.
  2. She wanted me to treat her more like a girlfriend rather than a buddy by complimenting her, giving her gifts, surprising her, being more affectionate, reassuring her better when she was feeling down, etc.
  3. She wanted me to be more assertive and confident, because she felt more emotionally dominant than me throughout the relationship and gradually was losing her feelings of respect for me.
  4. She wanted me to be more honest with her, since I used to avoid certain topics that were uncomfortable for me (like talking about my past relationships), even when she asked. One time, she saw me talking to a girl I used to have a massive crush on a couple years ago (but I had no feelings for her at that point), and it became a trust issue when I could’ve easily just reassured her.
  5. I was going through a rough time mentally during our relationship, and I tended to take out my frustration and sadness on her instead of other resources which I had access to, so she started feeling unhappy as well. This became less of a problem once I found a professional, though.

I promised to change these things, but over time, I grew complacent because I was comfortable with the fact she was still by my side. Ultimately, she broke up with me for the same reasons. She directly cited #1 and #2 specifically as her main points of frustration when she was breaking up with me, and kind of implied #5 as well, but I’m confident all of these issues played a major role in pushing her to her decision. There were also some more minor things; one that comes to mind was she felt uncomfortable that I was trying too hard to integrate myself into her Chinese-Argentine heritage, even if it was with good intentions, because her unique background is one of her main sources of self-confidence, which she’s always struggled with. I learned her native language, Spanish, for her (but her English is perfectly native-level as well), and over time she said it felt more like an invasion of her individuality rather than something sweet I was doing since people around us started seeing me as the “Spanish speaker” (I’ll admit I invested too much time into studying it when I could’ve been doing better things for our relationship).

I hope the trip gives us an opportunity to share a heart-to-heart moment with each other (also praying the coronavirus doesn’t prevent us from traveling in June, although I think it’ll be fine at that point). I was thinking about ways to subtly show her affection and re-attract her during the trip, although I don’t have anything specific in mind yet. Would it be a good idea to still keep the portion of the trip with just the two of us in Tokyo for a week? We also have the China and California portions of the summer trip too. At this point, my main worry is that at some point during the trip (or even after), I read the room incorrectly and end up coming on too strong and driving her further away by asking or even hinting at reconciliation, or that I fail to completely re-attract her and separate myself from the “friend” label she seems really adamant on giving me (considering she even labeled our romantic relationship a “friendship” in retrospect).

Thank you so much for your replies so far! You’ve been a great help and motivation :slight_smile:

@paulolondra #1 & 2 seem very reasonable and are things a guy would normally do for a girlfriend! Too bad you didn’t change prior to the breakup as it seems like easy things to do for someone you love and respect. I mentioned these things in my post Feb 18th and you’re probably learning a lot more with your reading materials. #3 might be a little more difficult for you if it’s not in your nature. But I don’t know what you mean by “emotionally dominant”? Can you give examples? #4 seems like it should have been fairly easy to do, even if it made you uncomfortable, she asked and you should always be open and honest with a girlfriend. #5 It’s okay to mention your troubles, but a guy who wants to make a girlfriend happy would never overdo it!

She’s considering taking another girl on the trip and it seems like a good idea. You will have to go along with whatever she decides. Take it slow… as a start-- maybe give compliments (like she looks beautiful - is so smart etc) things you can do without physically touching her. Usually nice long hugs are common even among friends, and maybe a kiss on the cheek. I’m not sure if she would be put off if you tried to hold her hand occasionally, but maybe she will give you a hint about it. Try to get into how she feels about this as you go along because you know her best.

And like I said before; hopefully you will get a chance to ask her if she would consider reconciliation either during the trip or sometime soon afterwards.

Learning Spanish should have been interpreted by her as something you would do to have more in common, so I don’t know how she could have taken it as an invasion/interference of any sort. But like you said, maybe you spent too much time on it instead of showing your love in other more caring and affectionate ways.

Lastly, since she made a comment in the past of feeling alone and you didn’t show enough interest or affection during the relationship, give her a call occasionally to ask how she’s doing.

@patricia12 Yeah, I made some terrible mistakes as a boyfriend :frowning: but this was the wake-up call I needed. A few examples of #3 I can think of are things like me not being confident or assertive enough, i.e. I was kind of a pushover with our friends and other people. I was also often indecisive and didn’t have a good handle on my emotions, so I guess she didn’t see me as masculine enough. On a really bad day, she’d feel like she was more of the man in our relationship (yikes). About the Spanish thing: yeah, at first it started off as sweet and considerate thing to do, but it grew out of hand over time, so I understand her position.

It’ll be about a month and a bit before I can see her in person again due to the virus, but in the meantime, should my main goal be building our relationship up to a level where I can take her out on dates (without the label of course)? One of her favorite things to do in the past was go shoe-shopping, so I mentioned maybe going again some time during our call earlier this week. I’m not sure how often I should be contacting her (either texting or calling) either, since I don’t want to seem too attached or too distant. She hasn’t been initiating contact even though she sounded really happy to hear from me and admitted she was considering reaching out before I called her, so I’m wondering if our call hit the reset on how much she misses me and if she feels a sense of security knowing that I’m still around as a friend, but nothing more.

@paulolondra You wrote:“…I was kind of a pushover with our friends and other people. I was also often indecisive and didn’t have a good handle on my emotions” What do you mean by pushover with friends and other people. Any examples?? What were you indecisive about?? Didn’t handle your emotions. Any examples??

It’s good that she was considering reaching out to you before you called her:) I think she will be happy to go shoe shopping with you sometime after the quarantine period is over.

Maybe contact her about every 4-5 days or so. Weekly at the least. Text, but more phone calls.

Good luck…

@patricia12
Being a pushover: I’m a better student than most of my friends, so my friends would sometimes try to “use me” and make me practically do their assignments for them, for example; I would rarely ever get anything in return (yeah, I need new friends, but I’m relocating soon, so I’ve just been dealing with it). During meetings regarding projects with uni faculty and such, I would rarely stand up for my own ideas and just accept that they were bad ideas just because someone told me they were during the meeting, for example, and I would just agree to go along with someone else’s idea even if I believed it was faulty, but I’d be too afraid to speak up about it.

Indecisiveness: just little things like where to eat for dinner, for example. It’s small, but I can see how it gets on someone’s nerves when it takes me 15 minutes to decide where to eat, and by then they’re not even in the mood anymore. There might also be instances where we’re out with friends, and my ex-gf can tell I’m obviously not enjoying myself (and neither is she), but instead of choosing to leave and go home with her, I’d have a mental battle with myself for the next 20 min deciding if I actually want to leave or not. By then, she’d just drag me home and tell our friends we had other plans we needed to get to.

Bad handle on emotions: I tended to get frustrated/angry easily. I’m not the aggressive type and I would never take it out on her verbally or physically, but I’d go quiet whenever we had even a minor argument, and it was frustrating because she could tell I was angry but refusing to communicate. I’d keep my emotions to myself until I couldn’t hold it in anymore, and I’d break down, so the way I chose to deal with my emotions was very unhealthy for me mentally and would bring her down too.

@paulolondra Therapy might help you with your issues. From now on be a stronger man!! Never do assignments for someone else!! Just say NO, I can’t do that… Be a stronger man who knows his own mind as to where you would like to eat, leave when you get bored etc…!! And always discuss issues with a girlfriend in a calm manner. Refusing to communicate seems childish and unfair to a partner. Getting frustrated/angry easily is a bad character trait! Your therapist could help you find out why you do that and give you suggestions as to how to better handle life’s situations in a better way. All these things originate in your own mind and you have to change your thinking and actions in order to be a strong man that women would admire!

Good luck:)

@paulolondra How are you doing? I’m in the United States and COVID-19 has quickly spread around our country to every state. We heard on the news that China is having fewer cases reported recently.

Prayers for you and stay safe…

Hello! Yes, the COVID-19 situation is slowly improving here. More people are starting to go outside, and infection rates are slowing. I have many friends in the US, so I know how bad it’s getting there. Stay safe!

As for the ex situation, I’ve decided to give her some space like she asked. It doesn’t look like the trip will still happen because of the virus, so I’m just taking this time to work on myself. I’ve taken up some old hobbies like songwriting and it’s been going great! I’ve also been talking to some other people, which is nice. Thank you for all your help! I’ll keep you posted :slight_smile: Stay safe!

@paulolondra You have some good ideas to bide your time and giving her space is very good.

The virus situation is very scary. You stay safe too!