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@starlight @malinda No, I haven’t told him that I love him in words. If he didn’t know before this summer, he definitely knows now.
Last June, he invited me to dinner and when I gave him an intense hug at the end, he didn’t hug me back.
Last month, we had this super fun random day where he picked me up on the street and invited me to get ice cream, then got me drunk, then insisted on cooking dinner for me, him, and his angry friend at his angry friend’s house. At the end of the night, he drunkenly told me that running into me that day had been “destiny” and he agreed with what I’d said over dinner about life being “strange” (meaning that it was strange that we were cooking together again after so many years) and that the evening was “just what we needed.” The next day, I tried to use that as a jumping point to invite him to dinner at my house, but as soon as I said I agreed with him about what he’d said about that day being destiny, he cut me off and said that he’d been talking about helping his angry friend.
He never contacts me to ask how I’m doing or to invite me anywhere. He knows I have feelings for him. He can’t be afraid of rejection from me anymore. He rejected my two attempts to show/tell him that I love him. What else do I need to say? What else do I need to know? I was so stupid to ever think that I could have been special to him.
About my friend, let’s call her C: we’ve been friends for 3 years. When I met her, she was in love with Mauro (a friend of F’s), who was just using her for sex.
Something I haven’t mentioned before: I’ve never told any of my friends in town about my feelings for/history with F. I was always too ashamed and too embarrassed because they all know him. I know he told his friends about us when we first dated, but no one has ever mentioned anything to me, only his friend Moreno a few times but I always changed subjects. There is ONE friend in my town who knows about F, my snaky friend S, who figured it out one night when he saw me watching him. That’s a whole other drama.
Back to my friend, C. She was with me that night 3 years ago when I first saw F and his ex together. I was absolutely devastated; I shouted a lot of ugly things. Later, I told her, “I hope this stays between us.” and she said, “Who would I tell? I don’t even know who you were talking about.”
C really enjoys the town’s music scene (Mauro is part of it) so we often meet up at concerts. About a year ago, she asked if I knew somewhere she could take voice lessons and I suggested F’s school but she never signed up. This past summer, she’s been with me a couple of times when he and I interacted but they never said hello to each other; I thought I could feel some tension on her part. So I thought, “maybe they have a negative history or she likes him – who wouldn’t, he’s gorgeous.” The night of the concert last July where I played the keyboard and F treated me like crap, she came to see me perform. She got excited about voice lessons again after watching the concert. She was also with me the night last month when I tried to talk to F about destiny, when he was flirting so hard with the waitress. F was showing some kids how to use maracas. I saw her smiling tenderly at him and I thought, “WTF?” But I didn’t dwell since I had other things on my mind.
Lately, she’s been texting me a lot to hang out, much more than usual: “I need good music and you’re the one who knows where the music is!” I thought, “she wants me to take her to where he is”. Then a few weeks ago, I went to the town center and from my car, I saw her enter his family’s boutique. I thought, “she’s looking for him.” About half an hour later, I walked by the boutique and he was standing out front and that’s when we had our nice 40 minute chat. But he said, “Hey, that girl was just here. That friend of yours. The one I always see you with. The one who looks Irish. I don’t know her name. Is she a good friend of yours?”
That’s when I really started to panic. In the past, he has often mentioned people he “always” sees me with, like my friends Flora, Veronica, and Riccardo (“I know he’s a friend of yours because I’ve seen you with him. That girl you’re always with, the one with the blonde hair?”), but this was the first time he ever asked, “is she a good friend of yours?” I thought he was asking me because he wanted to date her and I didn’t sleep for two nights. I should be happy of course, right, because she is actually a real woman – age-appropriate, intelligent, kind, classy, serious…. not a trophy girl like his ex or the waitress. I should be happy to move away and leave him in the hands of someone great. But instead, I couldn’t sleep I was so upset….
This week, C texted me to say that she signed up for lessons at his school and she wanted to know if I wanted to go to a concert this Friday: “when are you going to show your face? I haven’t seen you in forever!”. I said, “What, you miss me?” and she said, “Of course! Well, also that there are few people who appreciate good music and I always have a good time with you.”
I thought, “bullshit!” I felt sick about it all week but I figured I should go out with her and at least see what was going on. At the concert, she told me that all of her close friends have “abandoned” her: S just had a baby, A broke her back and is bedridden, L and G moved to Rome, and I’m the only one left in town to hang out with. The concert was near our favorite bar (where F always hangs out) so we stopped in. I noticed that she kept watching the door. I asked who she was looking for and she said “no one, no one.” I asked if she was dating anyone, if she liked anyone these days… she said, “No, just kind of still seeing my ex, Stefano. But apart from that nothing.” A bit later, she said she’d had her first voice lesson and it was great. She said she also met the boys who run the school – P, F, and S; I noticed she hesitated a bit before saying F’s name. I said, “they’re great guys, yeah”… and then I couldn’t help myself. I said, “You know, they built that place with their bare hands? They’ve done such a wonderful thing, creating a space that didn’t exist in this town. I’m so, so proud of them.” She smiled tenderly. I relaxed a bit and we had a nice evening. But I couldn’t sleep last night and I still feel awful today.
I know that was really long… I’m sorry. I know I’m not right in the head, ever since that night at the club when it was so clear that I’m not a priority and that he was only using me to boost his ego while trying to get over his ex. I feel so stupid for ever daring to believe that I was special to him. And I also know that I’m supposed to be focusing on leaving. That by leaving, I officially let go of him. I mean, if I’m going to be gone in 2 months, he is free to do whatever he wants! But THAT THOUGHT…. the thought that I WON’T BE HERE ANYMORE and I will OFFICIALLY be admitting that he and I will never be together is horrible. Realizing how upset I am at the thought of letting him go (meaning that he will DEFINITELY end up with someone who isn’t me), made me think that maybe I don’t want to let him go, that maybe I want to fight for him. But fight for what!!!!!!!
He doesn’t love me!
Well, that’s New York. She is definitely not seeing me for the money. In fact,
Her sessions with me take away time from clients who are able to pay her full $250 an hour fee.I’m so sad. I’m sure my friend wants to use me to get closer to F. She signed up for voice lessons at his school and when she sent me the text to tell me, my heart sank. I haven’t slept or really eaten since. She wants to go to a concert where he might be tonight and I’m sure it’s because she wants an excuse to see him.
I’m supposed to be over him, but This has made me realize that I’m not. I love him and I love her but I’m miserable at the thought of them together… Of him with anyone who isn’t me. But he doesn’t love me. And I’m supposed to be moving away so he can do whatever he wants, i hereby give him to whoever wants him, right? Plus, I’ve never told her about my feelings for him and they can both do whatever they want. But I’m so unhappy. I cannot bear the thought of completely letting go. How can it be so hard to let go of him when i finally understand that he doesn’t love me and probably never did?
I went out with another friend last night and she thinks I’m not ready to move away: “you should be excited and you clearly aren’t.” She’s right. I’ve been telling most of my friends (no friends in common with F) but I haven’t really looked for jobs and i don’t want my friends in America to know because I know they’ll want to celebrate and i see nothing to celebrate. I’m not excited about the future at all.
I should reply to my friend’s text. If she wants to see him she’ll see him even without my help and I can’t hide at home forever. But I don’t know what I’ll say if she asks me for information about him, or for my help.
Said which things to keep me going? That we had a special connection/i hurt him or that he’s an asshole and i need to close the door as soon as possible?
I pay her. We have worked together for 13 years. She helped me through my major depression, self harm, prescription drug and my child abuse issues. In my 20s i had a big crush on a coworker who only saw me as a friend and she NEVER told me to talk to him or that we had any kind of connection. We stopped working together when i moved to japan. I went back to her in 2012, after i discovered that F had a girlfriend because i wanted help letting go of him. But she insisted from the start that there was something special between us that i needed to explore. When i lived in new york she charged me $250 an hour. I couldn’t afford that living in Italy so she agreed to charge 50 an hour. That was 3 years ago and she has never asked me to pay more.
I don’t know, Malinda. There are things unsaid, sure, but I don’t know how important anything i have to say is for him, or how much more I can take. He lets me get close and it’s like the sun is shining and it’s so wonderful… then the door shuts, and it’s so very, very cold.
I saw him briefly tonight at school. He had shaved off his beard; so incredibly cute. He’s handsome with the beard and super handsome without it. I was annoyed at myself for noticing. I teased him briefly after my lesson and he liked it, but then someone called me away and he went to go practice his bass in another room. I talked to his coworker for a while – his coworker is going through a break up and was venting to me – and then I had to leave and said goodnight to him quickly: strained weird smile. Nothing big. I always want more. When will I stop wanting more?
Yes. That whole fun, crazy day 6 weeks ago where he literally came dancing up to me on the street, invited me to have ice cream in a totally different part of town, got me drunk, then insisted I come with him to his friend’s house so he could cook us dinner and later told me that it was “destiny” that we’d run into each other that afternoon, that life was strange and nothing happened by chance and it was just what we needed… all the while flirting with the 25 year-old waitress? It was like he was trying to remind me that there’s nothing between us, while at the same time keeping me with him for nearly 10 hours and drunkenly talking about destiny. Then the next day, he took it away: “oh, yeah. last night was all about helping my sad friend.” Except his allegedly sad friend told me a few days later, “yeah, that night was all about you guys. i didn’t want you at my house.” What the hell was that whole thing really about? I was just talking to my therapist about it; I feel like it was significant, but I still don’t know what any of it meant.
hi, malinda. i’m sorry you’re feeling so crappy today… it’s amazing how you can feel like you’re on the right track and then wake up feeling like you’re completely derailed. but i do think that the whole “the right man will do anything to be with you” idea is a hollywood fallacy; i think it’s only right in the very beginning, when there hasn’t been pain or dark history. that makes everything confused. people who have been hurt will be twice shy. i don’t know. i don’t know anything.
i’m not great today – i’m having a paranoid spiral freakout (it’s like a musical theater counterpoint in my head right now; ten different voices singing different things). I was feeling pretty calm the past couple of days, feeling like i’ve really accepted that he’s not the right man for me and that he doesn’t – and won’t ever – love me; that he might be susceptible to my charms but he hasn’t been seriously interested in me in years. then today my friend told me that she signed up for singing lessons at his school; based on some recent interactions, i think they’re attracted to each other and now i’m miserable. i know he doesn’t love me, i know that if he doesn’t love me he can’t be the right man for me, but i still love him, and thinking of him with anyone else is devastating. what, am i supposed to watch it from center stage???? i’ve never told her that i’m in love with him so of course she can do whatever she wants. but ….
i might see him tonight. maybe her, too. i don’t know. i’m such a fool.
I really don’t want to play games with him anymore. But I will say that when I do behave coldly/neutrally, his reactions are mixed. Usually he just mirrors my behavior, other times he teases me until i melt. I think it depends more on his mood than anything else.
We’re both Pisces. My birthday is 5 days before his. I’ve told him this several times but he never remembers. The first time i told him, on our first date, he said: “see? I knew we had things in common.” But it’s come up a few times since and he always seems surprised. Last year, I ran into him on the night before my birthday and when it was midnight i told him and he was really warm and sweet. He wanted to buy me a drink but I said I had to meet some people and ran away (long story. This was basically about my fear of intimacy. Plus, he was still with his gf at the time). This year, he turned 40 and I went to his office at music school to wish him a happy belated day (since, of course, he hadn’t invited me to celebrate with him) and i brought him a little gift. He was clearly happy, but, yet again, seemed surprised to hear that my birthday had been just a few days before. He said, “oh, I don’t even remember my own birthday.”
he has my number – he gave it to his friend a few months ago when she was looking for a keyboardist for her P!nk cover band. while he’s often glad to run into me, he has displayed no desire to see or hear from me apart from random encounters. it’s true that he knows he can/will see me once a week at music school and by now he knows that we go to the same events, but even before i took lessons at his school, he never tried to contact me. the closest he came to trying to see me again was about two years ago when we had started talking again after those 2 years of silence: “come see the school i opened. here’s the brochure with the directions on it.” But that was one time. Two years ago. When we dated he wouldn’t leave me alone; texted and called constantly, needed to see me every day. And even for about a year after we stopped seeing each other, he still got in touch now and then through FB messages. We’re technically “friends” now but he doesn’t even text to say “merry christmas.” I always noticed this and it bothered me, but my therapist always said: “you’re the rejection girl; he’s never sure where he stands with you. and you never contact him, either.” It used to make sense; now I think it’s a load of crap. He CAN’T fear rejection from me anymore. Either he knows I’m still in love with him or he doesn’t – which is it?
the other night i went to dinner with my friend Piero (Who spent our whole dinner trying to get me to change my mind about leaving Italy). After dinner he and I went down to the main piazza where there was a concert. it was a mess; a sea of people. we were trying to make our way through the crowd when I saw F fighting his way through as well. I said, “hey!!” and grinned at him. He said, “Hey!” and grinned at me, too – he stopped and we gave each other the cheek kiss. And then… total blank! I opened my mouth and nothing came out. He said nothing, either – there were a couple of uncomfortable, awkward beats and then he just laughed at me like as if to say, “oh, this girl!” and then he nodded at me and went on his way. like i said, nothing important.
my therapist and i had had a negative session a couple of weeks ago. i was upset with her because it seemed as though she was trying to shirk responsibility for having spent the last 3 years telling me that he and i did have a special connection, that i hurt him, that he still cares about me, and that our negative dynamic is my fault. she denied having said that i might have hurt him in the past (SHE ALWAYS SAID THAT) but she did say he is an asshole and i need to tell him i’m leaving as soon as possible so as to definitively shut the door on him. when i asked her if she thought i should continue to interact with him she said, “I have no opinion.” i was upset by this and we talked about it last week; she apologized for having upset me and wants to talk about it more. I’m still upset, but I’m not interested in discussing it further.
I do feel depressed. It seems clearer and clearer to me that I’ve only been an ego boost for him. When he and I are together and both on the same page, it’s so wonderful… he seems so genuine and I can tell – not reading anything into anything or overanalyzing anything – that he enjoys spending time with me and talking to me. But it always ends there. Hot/warm and then cold. This summer it actually seemed like things were progressing but that blew up, too, and for once I don’t think it was my fault. It always ends. I’m okay by him but I’m not enough.
I’ve been trying so hard not to overanalyze things about our encounters… I must say, it’s getting easier. I no longer really find things to read into; that’s why I didn’t even explain what happened last night (what’s the point? details are useless by now). It’s Saturday night and I’m near tears, reading articles online: “how can you tell if a man is just using you for an ego boost?” That’s what I’m starting to think about it. He NEVER calls, he NEVER texts, he NEVER makes any sort of effort to see me; we just run into each other at events, on the street, or at the music school he runs (where I take piano lessons). I know I rejected him repeatedly years ago but there’s no way he can still be afraid of rejection from me! He has no desire to see me. I’m a funny incidental character in his life.
At least your man actually reaches out to you and sees you as a woman.
Hi, ladies. Thank you as always for your support.
I’ve been okay. He and I had another friendly but really awkward encounter last night. I honestly don’t know whose fault it is – his or mine.
I think I’ve really finally accepted that he doesn’t and won’t ever have romantic feelings for me again. I think he respects me as a musician, enjoys spending time with me, and might even feel affection and some physical attraction to me but that’s it. A few of my friends agree with Malinda – that he knows I’m in love with him and takes advantage of it. I don’t know if I agree; I\m sure he definitely picks up on my romantic inclinations towards him but I don’t think he understands the depth of it. I don’t know, either, if he’s taking advantage of it because what is he getting out of it? He’s never tried to sleep with me. I have no power to help him financially or get anything he wants. Do men, like women, get off on the thrill of having their ego stroked?
Hard days.
Hi, Kaila. Nothing’s really new except that after last week’s stupid, base-less freak out, I realized how off the wall I’ve been these past few months… I guess thinking the Holy Grail was within reach and then realizing that it was never there to begin with will do that to a person. I’ve been trying to work hard on myself, to be serene and focus on seeing things as they are. I’ve been telling more and more people that I’m leaving; I finally told my neighbor – she cried like a little girl 🙁 “What about us? What will we do?” … it was terrible. Some of my guy friends have popped out of the woodwork with dinner and lunch invites. I’ve been having nightmares about leaving, but I know it’s time. I’m swinging up and down heavily… I’ll start to feel positive about meeting new people – maybe even a man who actually loves me – and then I’ll suddenly burst into tears. Up and down. Up and down….
As for him, there’s nothing I can do but try to have positive encounters with him until it’s time to tell him that I’m leaving, and then time to tell him how I feel. And I realize that I don’t have a chance in hell at creating a positive environment unless I calm the eff down. It’s been such a hard summer. But the past month, my behavior hasn’t been adult. I need to be serene, I need to accept that he got over me a long time ago and what remains is friendly affection, I need to realize that it’s time to move on.
We had a nice encounter tonight; I hung out with him for a while, listening to him and his friend play a song they’d written, and then we listened to music together, just him and I. I had told him a month ago that if he learned to play Rio on the bass I’d die a happy woman, so he was messing around with the bass line. It was lovely. I had to leave after about an hour to go to my therapy session, but I’d have stayed all night if he’d wanted me to. I know he’s not the right man for me, I know he doesn’t love me, but every time I leave his presence, all I can think is, “Turn back! turn back!!” …. and the more steps I take away from him, the worse I feel. Even now I wish I was still with him.
Hi, Platinum. I agree that “mixed signals” can mean that the other person isn’t quite over you, but I think it’s helpful to accurately define “hot” and “cold.” A “hot” signal would be playful flirting or some sort of emotional sign – displaying jealousy when they see you with someone else, voluntarily bringing up important things from your past, doing something sweet for you, looking at you in a certain way…. A “cold” signal would be not responding to your messages, not reaching out to you, ignoring you, being mean to you… etc.
I’m sorry to say, but I don’t think this is a case of hot and cold mixed signals. I think this is a case of your ex testing the waters to see if he can still sleep with you no strings attached, and then him pulling back when you didn’t respond the way he wanted. As you said, it was you who brought up sweet memories; all he wanted to talk about were your breasts. When men try to get into your pants, they’ll say just enough to soften you up – i.e., “yeah, i miss talking to you” – but they’ll keep focused on their objective.
If he really wanted to win you back, he’d court you properly, wouldn’t he? I know you miss him, but don’t accept less.
The day has finally come; I have met my male twin. I thought I was the only one who read into things so deeply and got into my own head like this!
My friend, I will tell you the same thing my friends have had to tell me time and time again when I start spiraling into a paranoid freakout: Relax. Don’t do it.
She wants to meet earlier because she wants to meet earlier. I highly highly doubt she’s shuffling you around to accommodate her dating schedule; would she have a date that early in the day? She could have a million reasons for meeting earlier, none of which probably involve another man. Picking up dry cleaning. Errands. Meeting her mom for lunch. Dentist’s appointment. What if she’d said “can we meet later?” Would you have thought, “she wants to make our meeting later so she can finish having sex and then post-sex brunch with her new dude”? THAT WAS HYPOTHETICAL 🙂 You’ve got to try to calm down – you’ll only drive yourself insane this way.
Take it from one who knows (and who spent the weekend in tears because her guy said, “I saw that girl you’re always hanging out with. I don’t know her name. Is she a good friend of yours?” I was sure it meant he wants to date her. I didn’t sleep for TWO NIGHTS…). The more in your head you get, the more you will damage things.
I don’t think it’s that she’s gone “Distant”… I think it’s that she’s treating your coffee date the way she would treat a coffee date with a friend. I don’t think she’s really aware of all the emphasis you’re putting on it; I think to her it might just be coffee. I know you’re still very much in love with her and want her back, but keep in mind that you’re broken up and you can’t “girl-friend-zone” her…. that is, expect her to behave like a girl-friend or a potential girl-friend. I think she agreed to your coffee invite because it seemed casual, no pressure… try to continue in that vein, for yourself, too.
Like you said, you’ll know when you see her. The best way to see her is to play it calm. She’ll get back to you, don’t worry. I know it’s easier said than done but try to tell yourself that the cooler you are, the better your chances are of seeing her.
Hi, Wondering. I’m sorry to hear that you’re feeling disappointed that she’s dating other men. But I think it might be helpful for you to remember that it’s not ALL or NOTHING; she agreed to have coffee with you. Coffee. It didn’t necessarily mean that she wants to get back together and have lots of babies. Her response seemed quite neutral and friendly. It’s important not to get carried away… and trust me, I know what I’m talking about. I’ve spent 5 years getting too carried away by friendly gestures and am struggling with this very same thing right now.
She agreed to meet you. You will see her again, just as you wanted.
Anyway, think about those jokers she’s going out with… couldn’t they also say, “Yeah, i went out with this girl last week but… she’s having coffee with her ex so I guess there’s that.” ?
