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Hi penelope 🙂 I read your writing here. I want to tell you how it sounded like in the first part, then i’ll tell you about his change of attiude, all that jealousy towards his ex and her boyfriend and all that. I actually did not realise there was 3 pages so the language is not in past tense but I think it doesn’t matter. Firstly, you sound as though you have made big progress since five years ago, great work! I know how fear can throw a person into a box of invisible walls stopping the person from doing anything outside of the habit of fear.Fear creates constraints based on self preservation and they make you do what you do not spontaneously want.He absolutely likes you.
At the end there where he and you hug and he stops the hug first. He sounds like he wants you to be brave and tell him straight in the face.
Now fear will make you do your usual and your heart deep down wants something else. You cannot out think yourself as thinking will lead on to anxiety. You have to decide if you want him more than you want to follow your fearful habit. You have been in two positions on this at once, one being too scared to escape comfort zone. The other being wanting him.
Your heart will be full of emotion by all of this and that is okay. You know what the throbbing emotions are like as I expect you have had all those butterflies around him. You can feel the way you feel without being at war with it. The fear is an energy but you think of it as the thoughts it creates.Your thoughts are a reaction to your fear.
Perhaps you need to stop thinking about how he feels and consider telling him you love him no matter the result. Maybe Rome was not built in a day but you are talking about an attraction to someone that has been very natural. If someone loves who you are they love you when they see who you are. They are attracted to your inspirational side and then something else mysterious to all people I know or have heard talk.
You dont just talk six hour with someone because you like them. You don’t just stay up till 5am which is unhealthy unless you love them. He loves you but he has been scared of you hurting him. Once he had gotten the wrong idea with your mixed attitude.
Now I imagine he must have understood you to be fearful but as I said he wants you to be brave and tell him. The other thing you might think is he is trying to not go to the love part of your relationship so he withdraws the hug and talks of the other woman. But he certainly put you before the other woman. I mean you saw him admire you. You wrote that somewhere. You are an amazing person. Why? because you have a very very sensitive heart and you are not stupid. I mean fear makes us rationalize things out but our original thinking which is closer to our heart. He said in that last encounter you wrote where you were hugging each other that you are not breathing. True. You need to take a moment to breath and see yourself as being with your emotions instead of being in them.
The reason for this is your thoughts come in after you already feel love and say in your head I love him are then covered with oh but I can just tell him later, oh no no way and all that kind of thing. We do not know when we will die so just tell him.
Now for where you are now as of the last post july 12… He is insecure by the sounds of it. Emotionally unstable. I guess the difficulty is could he have been in love out of fear? What you do need to do is look after you first and with any brains he would respect you for it.
Friendship is of great value and you have friends including Kaila aid.Maybe she is a friend now I have no idea. Scientifically they say we have 150 friends at one time but obviously they are not all the sort of friend you go to the bar with regularly. The final point to all this is, you deserve to be happy and you do not need to know what love is or is not. You know what love is like. It is not about needing because it already is so jealousy is not a part of it. jealousy is a reaction. Jealousy is formed out of someones thinking as are all emotions and emotions form thoughts so it can seem chicken or the egg type thing. Jealousy is an attitude so is happiness and sadness and so on. Love is something a little different (not talking of romantic) I mean love or friendship you need trust, understanding and communication. You guys definitely need to be honest and it sounds like he has got some work to do of his own.He sounded a bit controlling which is not good sounding. Just make sure you look after yourself well and value your friends.
I have no idea how this sounds to you but hopefully there is something in it. Hell, I might end up getting something out of it. I really have no idea. I onyt know what I know.
Why don’t you like the States? Well you can just be in the states for some time until you figure where to go next. Or if you want stay in Italy but if he says he doens’t want to be with you, its gonna be tougher to you.
I agree with the above poster in the you need to tell him, but as I said before and as your friend also said, I think you should give him some time to get over the last event. How long are you staying there? You can meet up with him a few days before you go and tell him for example
Hi, Ikkemarl! And Hi, Kaila. Thank you so much for your kind words and insight. I’ve been thinking so much these past few days. The first three were very rough; I know he never promised me anything, but it really seemed like he was there with me. I really thought I would finally be brave enough to love him in the real world, with spoken words and shared emotions; that we would finally get it right. It seemed so thrillingly inevitable. To see him still so wrapped up with his ex made me feel used and played with. Plan B, when she was Plan A. That’s been devastating. I wish I could believe he loves me, Ikkemarl.
I spoke to my friend Angelo and he told me that i’m selfish, that I only think of myself; never what F needs and wants. He’s right. My terror of rejection keeps me wrapped up in my own head. I’ve loved him all by myself; I never invited him to be a part of it. And it looks like I’ll never get that chance.
I think that the best way I can love him right now is by letting go. Stop trying to “get him” and instead, treat him with kindness and empathy; after all, he’s heartbroken, and who understands better than me right now? If I can get out of my own head and think about him, maybe that will be the best way I can actually love him in the real world.
Today I had a piano lesson and tried to think what I would do if a friend of mine were upset. So I made brownies from scratch and brought them to school with me. He was holed up in his office with my piano teacher and I poked my head in and said I’d brought something to eat. The teacher was excited; F was glum. I went close to him hoping to kiss him on the cheek, but his body language was forbidding so I just touched him on the shoulder lightly. I asked how he was and he said, “BAD,” covering his face with his hands. The teacher asked, “Why?” and he said, hesitating “I can’t SLEEP.” The teacher asked why again. F hesitated again, “It’s HOT.”
“So get an air conditioner,” said my teacher.
“I HAVE one. It doesn’t WORK.”
“I’m not sleeping either,” I said. “I understand.”i said I’d brought brownies and they both ought to eat because they never eat at that school. He continued being grim. My teacher picked up a brownie and said, “This is great! Saint Penelope!” F didn’t touch the brownies. As I was leaving, I called out to him, “Eat something, okay?” He grimaced.
All through my lesson I kept trying to think of nice things to tell him that might cheer him up. I settled on a story about my sister in law; how when she wanted to get engaged to my brother she was freaking out, never knowing that my brother was planning an elaborate surprise proposal. All of us knew about it, but she didn’t. And she just went on about her daily life, going to the supermarket, going to work, all the while not knowing that something wonderful was about to happen to her. That I like thinking about that when things get rough. I also thought I would tell him to make sure to eat brownies because brownies are full of chocolate and tryptophan which makes you happy and helps you sleep.
When I got out of my lesson there was his coworker and one of their musician friends (the guy who was trying to hit on me at the concert). They said the brownies were awesome and asked if I wanted to listen to their jam session. I said sure. F was in the room, setting up the instruments and playing around on the bass. I said, timidly, “P and J invited me to listen to the session. I hope it’s not a problem.” He didn’t say anything, just kept fiddling around on the bass. I asked if he was going to be play and he said “No”. I made the hand gesture for “a little”, to ask him to play a little. He sat down and jammed for a good bit with the drummer; that made me happy. I love seeing him play. By the end I could see that he was smiling with the other musicians. But then he got up and left the room without looking at me. I listened to the guys play a couple of numbers and then wished them a goodnight; thanked them for the privilege of inviting me to listen to them jam. I went to his office hoping to get a chance to wish him goodnight and tell him something that might cheer him up, but he was in there with other musicians, clearly talking work. So I just waved goodbye at him and he waved at me with a normal smile. I left.
It’s a bit easier now that I know why he’s so moody; it isn’t me or anything I’ve done, it’s her. I feel a bit like I can’t make mistakes now since I realize that I’m not important to him. But I was thinking as I was leaving that maybe this is the last time I’ll see him; I’m leaving on the 25th. I started crying on the drive home.
I’ve started telling people I’m leaving, like my friend P and my friend A, who both freaked out. I wonder what F would say. If he’d even care.
I think you did good 🙂 I’m super proud of you. Are you thinking of going without saying anything? Aren’t you gonna wonder what if, forever?
If you are really thinking of not being back again, schedule something with him and let him know your feelings. Also get his number/email/facebook. You never know Penelope.
i need a couple of days to lick my wounds. i’m still feeling heartbroken and hurt. just three weeks ago i had him in my arms (!!!!) and last night he would barely look at me. It seemed like everything i’d suffered and learned had led us to the point of being together. now i realize that i was just plan B. it’s a lot for me to take.
right now i’m imagining telling him that i won’t be here anymore. i don’t even know how he’ll react. when i think about him saying, “oh, too bad. have a nice life” i start crying.
my friend who was there that night is now telling me that according to him, F’s jealous rage was more from wounded male pride, because his ex was being cozy with an insignificant douchebag (shirt open to the navel, gelled hair, gym socks) and that the girl might be hot but she’s not the one for him because she’s too vapid and ordinary. doesn’t matter i guess; the heart wants what it wants.
i’ve started going through my things to decide what to take with me. i was looking up apartments the other day and think chinatown might be a good option (i’d still feel a bit like i was in a foreign country). i’m sure as the time gets closer for me to go i’ll want to tell him something but seeing how cold he was with me last night i can’t imagine he’ll even agree to sit down with me.
A few things:
I have a date for Thursday night; one of my students who I’ve always thought was sexy. He noticed that I was looking down yesterday and sent me a really sweet message, which led to us talking and him saying that he’d like to be my friend, not my student.
I feel completely heartbroken; but you know what the worst part is? Yes, it was painful realizing that he’s still so involved with his ex but I’ve been through that before. The worst part, I think, was that he had this horrible scene in front of me. Not only did I feel absolutely insignificant, but I feel like I don’t even know him. Like I’ve spent the last 5 years longing for someone who wasn’t worth it. And he was such a jerk to me on Monday. Just wait a minute here – if his moods are about his ex, and HE’s the one who broke MY heart, why was he being such an arse to me??? I know that in the past I’ve treated him badly but what did I do this time to deserve such crap?
I finally got to talk to my therapist last night. She said that nothing he did changes how he feels about me and that he obviously feels something strong towards me; he’s absolutely not neutral but I almost don’t even care. How will I ever trust him again? That could just be the fear of getting hurt again talking – this was a terrible blow for me and it would make sense if I were going into deep protection mode – but that’s how I feel today.
Regarding leaving: a few people I’ve spoken to have described me leaving on July 25 and never coming back as “impulsive” and “an escape.” I’m starting to think they’re right. I’ve only told 3 people – two friends and a coworker – that I’m not coming back and their intense reactions shocked me. I’ve made deep roots here and have touched a lot of lives. I have a life here. When I think about telling my closest friends and my students that we’ll never see each other again my throat closes up. I’ve been crying nonstop for two days. I think I do need to leave, but maybe 10 days is just too fast.
One more thing:
Last night, I got a phone call at work. It was from the waitress of the pub F took me to on the night of our marathon hang. She has a P!nk cover band and that night, he had said to her, “Hey, you need a keyboardist, right? Penelope plays the piano!” and he asked me, “Would you like to be in a cover band?”
“Sure,” I said. “I love P!nk. But I don’t know if I’m good enough.”
“Why?” he said.
“I don’t know…”That was 3 weeks ago, a couple of hours before we were light and free and happy together and I was clumsily trying to tell him that I love him and I held him in my arms. And last night, I get this call from the waitress. She said that they’re still looking for a keyboardist and that F gave her my number, that we’ll even rehearse at his school.
I told her that I would have to get back to her because I’m planning to go abroad soon and I don’t know when I’ll be back, but I’m really glad that she called because I love P!nk and think it would be a lot of fun. As soon as I hung up the phone, I started crying. Who knows when he gave her the number? 3 weeks ago when he was still pretending to care about me or just now, when I’m apparently persona non grata? Does he even still want me around his school?
Test or sign?
Hey Penelope. Sorry have been busy
Well you are overthinking. And yes, you are allowing yourself to close up again. What he did has NOTHING to do about you, and he “treated you like crap”, in my opinion, cause he doesn’t think it affects you at all. Its just about him, not about you at all. He just feels bad about his own life. That’s it.
And I do think that part of him still has feelings for you. And as I said before I do think it was more about his ego being hurt than him still having feelings for her. He is just a mess right now. If he wants to settle and have a family, can’t be easy being 40 and not having something stable and have to see his ex with someone else.
About him big worthy, I’m sorry I probably am to blame to put those thoughts in your head. He definitely seems a bit impulsive and its weird the way he acted. Doesn’t mean he isn’t worth it. We all have that side. Maybe he is really affected about other things in his life and he just gets like that at times.
I’m so sorry you are going thru that Penelope :/ If you think its just way too soon, and if you think that you would like to keep living there, just do it. To be honest I think the biggest reason you are holding on is because you never got any closure. You kept thinking it was all your fault and that if you didn’t push him away it would be different, so now if you could just get back and do it right, it would go right. I’m talking by experience. Even if he tells you he doesnt want to be with you, or if you two try and it doesnt work out, it will hurt… but you will get over it way quicker. Your brain will just compute that it doesn’t matter anymore, that that’s not where you should be directing your energies and efforts, and turn off the switch
Hi, Kaila. Thank you so much for always responding to this thread and having such keen insight. I know you’re going through your own heartache as well.
I think that’s what upsets me – that he was only thinking of himself, and that his behavior and reaction had nothing to do with me. Either because I’m not important or he’s so self-involved he doesn’t think about how his actions affect others. Can he really not know by now that I care about him? Again, I know that I’m totally shutting down and going into protective mode, but I still have to ask myself – who is this man that I’ve adored for so many years? For the first time, I feel like he has to prove himself to me instead of the other way around.
So that all said, I saw him at at a concert tonight. i’ve been so angry with him all week and feeling so dead inside, but as soon as I saw him my heart began to pound. Ludicrous!!!
I approached him and he wasn’t a cold dick like he was at school last Monday, but he was in a really weird mood – somewhere between friendly (lots of smiling and laughing) and punchy/skittery. I told him that his friend had called me to ask me to be in the P!nk cover band and he said, “Yeah, I know. I gave her your number.” I asked, “When?” and he yelled: “What do you care when I gave it to her? They needed a pianist and I thought of you! Are you going to do it or not?” He was laughing and smiling as he said it, but I was startled. I’ve only ever heard him raise his voice one other time, 2 years ago (he had a tantrum when I was laughing with some men). I said, “I know the why, I just asked you the when.” He reluctantly said, “a few days ago. You said you love P!nk, right? So I did something good, so it’s perfect! So are you doing it?” He asked a couple more times if I was doing it and when I said, “Yes! Yes, I’m doing it!” he got quiet… relieved? satisfied? He made a few more weird comments – he asked me I know how to swing dance and when I said, “Yes, do you?” he replied: “Are you challenging me???” And a bit later, I forget what I said but he said, “Do you want to fight with me tonight or something?”
“Yeah, almost,” I said.We didn’t talk much after that, but he stayed near me. We just listened to the music in silence. In the past I might have worked hard to keep the conversation going but I’m through breaking my neck. Sometimes we talked to other people and I felt his eyes on me (I was with two of my guy friends, including the one who claims that F stares at him in public). When my ride wanted to leave, I went over to wish him goodnight and say I hoped that he slept well tonight. He said he’s been sleeping better since last week. I said, the important thing is that you’re well. We made some jokes and that was it.
I have to say I feel slightly better; if only for the fact that he wasn’t being a total cold jerk. And I guess he’s not back with the ex; she was nowhere to be seen. But I’m extremely guarded. I want to be nice to him for old time’s sake and to be compassionate about his own struggles. But I really feel like I need to evaluate very carefully who this man is.
Hey Penelope. You don’t need to thank me. Actually I’m pretty much healed but it still hard at times, when I remember what we used to have the first time we dated. And now the one year mark (of when we started) is approaching and its a bit depressing.
Any developments? He definitely acts so weird around you. I don’t get it. I think you really need to get things straight once and for all… If you went out with him once and told him you might be going to the US for good, the time you’ll be away might make him realize he should try with you, but I think he needs to know your feelings first.
And Penelope its normal he was only thinking of him. Why should he think about you? He doesn’t know you care about him, you were the one that broke his heart in the first place. Its only normal. He doesnt even think it affects you.
About evaluating who he is, first get to the part you talk to him about things, then evaluate him. Otherwise you are just delaying eveything again instead of moving on if thats what needs to happen.
I’m glad you’re doing better, Kaila – but those anniversaries can be so hard! I’m sending you hugs from Italy…
Yeah, small update. Saw him last night and he was friendly and fun. I said goodbye to him and his coworker before I head to the States. When his coworker told him, “Penelope’s going back to America” he looked startled for a split second and then said, “So what are you bringing us back?” It was nice to joke around with him and see him looking relaxed. As I was leaving, he called out after me, “Learn those songs! The band is waiting for you when you get back….”
Through the magic of Facebook stalking, I know that yesterday was his ex’s birthday. If she had a gathering, he wasn’t there. Who knows. Maybe she’ll celebrate later and he’ll be there and they’ll be thrilled. They really don’t seem to be together but something is absolutely up and it’s weird and it’s their business; if she’s what he wants, what can I say.
I’m glad we had a nice encounter before I left town. I’ve been so angry and disappointed ever since that scene with his ex. But when I see him, my heart melts and I just want to be near him. I’m proud of myself; in the past, I would have avoided him like the plague for months; been cold to him in public. This time I’ve really made an effort to be kind and friendly to him, even if I’m heartbroken that his being more open with me these past few months didn’t mean what I thought it did.
So something you said made me think. You said that of course he didn’t think about me when he made that scene because he doesn’t know how I feel about him. I honestly don’t know!!! Sometimes I think that he HAS to know, that everyone knows, and that they all laugh about it when I’m not there. When he pushes me away, I always think it’s because he picks up on my love for him and is rejecting it. But at the same time, I also know that I’m absolutely terrible at being open and clear; when it seems to me like I’m being direct, I’m often actually the opposite. A few months ago I “told” my friend that our physical relationship was over (we slept together once and kissed a few times after that). I asked him a few days ago if he remembered when I gave him that speech and he said he didn’t!!! I thought I’d been so direct and my whole speech had been over his head.
That night when F suggested we eat something together and I told him all those things about my fears and I hugged him… I thought that was telling him that I love him and always have. But maybe that’s not how it came out. And I was thinking this morning that I seriously can’t pinpoint any flirtatious signals that I give off; nothing to differentiate that I “like” one man and only like another as a friend.
Maybe he really doesn’t know? I honestly can’t tell. I still need some time to calm down and get my head straight before I can be more open with him about my feelings – time to accept outcomes that do not involve riding off into the sunset together. But you’re right – I can’t keep delaying. Five years. Enough already.
I probably won’t see him for another three weeks, when I get back. In the meantime, I’ll have fun with my family and friends in the States and try to look at New York through the eyes of someone who might live there again.
wooow I just spent an hour reading this.. and I know what you mean by the raw connection with him it’s a powerful thing. and I TOTALLY get the lag and all I’ll say is just seriously remove the bandage.. sometimes you just have to rip it off and then move on and no one knows the future honestly did you think you would be here 5 years ago.. no so who knows 5 years later you’ll be pleasantly surprised.. I honestly now believe ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN after my ex and I broke up… GOOD AND BAD but everything happens for a reason and when one door closes and you struggle in the hall way waiting for another to open (it’s rough, painful sad and dreadful.. honestly alot of tears and ups and downs) but when that door opens you forget the hallway and the other door cause it’s just soo much better stay strong. But I think you should just sit with him and let him know everything and give him space and prepare yourself for anything him accepting or not accepting it but you gotta just put it out there give him space by doing NC at most a month and after that move on and work on yourself and getting the family that it sounds you want to have. it’s not to late right now so take action now before it is and all your left with is hatred and animosity for him because you feel like you waited for him.. you don’t want hatred to slowly start building up unconsciously. Just put it out on the table give him time to digest and decide. Let him know what you want and decide if he wants that too . but first you take your time in the states to decide what you really want and where you want your life to go from here on out. Stay Strong and best wishes always.
hi, kaila… thanks so much for checking in! Nothing really new to report. My trip home was emotional; I was feeling very depressed about my life and about him, but very displaced at the same time. I’ve been back for almost two weeks now; also very emotional. I was dreading seeing him. We finally interacted a couple of days ago. It was fine. He was happy to see me and in a good, silly mood. But I think I’ve finally accepted – though it has been very hard – the fact that he simply doesn’t return my feelings and perhaps never did. I find that I haven’t been trying to read more into our encounter. He was happy to see me and that’s it.
I’m numb for the most part (100% protective mode, as you noted a while back) but I guess underneath I’m still pretty confused about what happened. When I got back, I was planning on showing him a different Penelope; a nice, polite Penelope behind a shut door. I don’t want to give him the opportunity to let me feel close to him and then shut me out again. Which is always what happens. But when I saw him the other night, I was shocked by how easy it was to be nice to him. As soon as he smiled at me… I didn’t feel angry any more (and trust me, I’ve been very upset for weeks now). My friend later told me that when he watched me interacting with F from afar, he could see that I was giggly and acting girly. That was not the plan and I’m annoyed with myself. But I guess it’s a process.
My therapist has warned me about “writing him off” – she says that talking to him is essential because I really don’t know what happened. I know she’s right.
She IS right! You need to have a talk once and for all. You can’t just give up and wonder WHAT IF, forever! Just don’t delay it anymore, ask him out for a coffee, an say you did a lot of thinking back home, and tell him everything, what happened, why it happened like that 5 years ago and tell him how you feel and ask how he feels about everything that happened and how he has been feeling about you. Its time Penelope.
Also its a good idea that you leave that place once and for all if he ends up telling you he isnt interested. Cause I remember you saying you only stayed so long because of him, and even if you dont want to leave I think it would be good to start over. But at least have an idea in mind, something exciting that you’ve always wanted to do, so if it goes wrong you have something to look forward to
i’m on the long road out of here. i’ve decided that as soon as i find a job i’m gone. my belief in love/destiny has been shattered; at least let me have a shot at a career. San Francisco, I think.
my friends are very upset. They say, “you’re being an idiot. you live rent free here. a man is not a reason to leave a country and uproot your whole life.” Technically, they’re right – you don’t move after every break up to start over. But I was here because of him. Five years of my life spent so completely sure that he was the love of my life. If I stay, I’ll never be able to move on – even when we do have that big conversation and he rejects me, even if I start seeing someone else. Everything reminds me of him.
I haven’t told my friends and family back home yet. I can’t bear to get their hopes up prematurely.
Maybe I haven’t lost all faith in romantic love; otherwise I guess I’d have accepted the first proposal I got (i’m very fortunate; a lot of men want a shot with me).
The talk is coming, yes, of course. I understand that I need to do it. The when is trickier. As you know, I don’t have his number or a way to contact him. I rely on luck to find him. And right now, I feel like I need to be closed off to him because I don’t want to trust him again, nor do I want to turn to putty when I see him smile (as I do). Last weekend I saw him at a bar – talking to some whore I didn’t recognize – and I pretended I didn’t see him (only because it was possible; my back was to him). On my way out of the bar, I waved and said hi as I passed. He smiled back goofily. I’m sure he thought (or feared) that I’d stop to talk. I did not. I’m through chasing him. I know I made a lot of mistakes in the past, but I feel like I’ve busted my can this past year trying to show him that I care and create opportunities for us to interact. He knows where to find me. When he wants, he’s perfectly capable of trying to get my attention. At the moment, he is not reaching out. So the talk is coming, but I don’t know when.
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