NC support

[mike2014]

Belle,

She was never a person who cried when we were together. This was all very new to me. I remember early in our relationship I flat out asked if she was someone who cries a lot and she said absolutely not. She is someone who gets stressed real quick tho especially with work and that would be something I would try to help her with. She never turned on the waterworks when we were dating.

That’s why her crying a lot now would always confuse me. I asked once about the smiley faces she would send post break up and exclamation points and she said she was just expressing how she felt at that time. I was thinking well if your happy to be talking to me then why wouldn’t you want to try again. She would just say how she needs to find herself again and work on herself. It’s just been confusing and many of her actions whether she realized it or not were very different from someone who did the breaking up.

When I first read this site it talked about improving yourself and working on yourself before you reach back out. I felt from reading it that was what she was doing except she was the one who broke it off and not the one trying to get an ex back.

I feel bad your ex had been a flip flopper with his emotions. He does seem confusing and childish in his behavior. You have been trying so hard to admit to things and get him to be open and it seems so hot and cold. That stinks!! Also canceling the date might not be all that bad. If you were not comfortable then the experience wouldn’t have been as rich. I’m surprised he didn’t respond with a alternative plan. Maybe that says something about his intentions?? Iv been not liking any dating websites.. I just can’t do them.. The unknown of people somewhat creeps me out.

Have a good night!

[atea1234]

belle,
im glad you canceled your date if you weren’t ready or had a bad vibe about it. no need to push yourself until youre ready. sometimes i feel like its still very early days and other times i feel like its been almost 5 months now and i still feel so far from imagining a serious relationship with someone else. the guy I’ve been seeing now is nice but I’ve found myself acting kind of cold to him this week and not super excited to see him again. i think once it started to feel more real it scared me. at the moment i think I’m having a bit of an internal struggle because a large part of me feels my ex will never come back and i need to move on but another large part of me still feels confident in the relationship we had and am in denial he wont be back. at least day to day my attitude is improving and i just need to wait to see how the next couple of months play out. i think the worst of it is behind me.
I’m sorry your ex got hot and cold again. i know how hard it is to keep nc but i really think you would both benefit from some time to self reflect. maybe challenge yourself to just go a week and see what happens. his emotions are all over the place. i actually think your situation is quite hopeful, but i think your ex still isn’t ready to delve deep into the issues so i would just tread lightly.

mike,
your ex does kind of sound like someone who got broken up with. I’m sure it was a difficult decision for her to make. my read on your situation is that you two quite simply got into a rut and it freaked her out. i think she blames both of you for that. i think she really has taken the time to be single and improve her own issues and sort out her own thoughts and you’ve done the same. thats why I’m optimistic about a reconciliation in your situation. i don’t think she necessarily tried to “fix” herself in the hopes of reconciliation but i think she probably just wanted to self improve overall for better things to happen in the future. because of your open lines of communication and how friendly and emotional she’s been, it seems to me she is open to the idea of getting back together but she is probably scared. she also probably hasn’t witnessed all the positive changes you’ve made.

[Aphrodite]

Good morning! Here’s my essay, and it’s a bit confusing (because I’m confused) – your welcome 😛

@atea1234

Thank you for your response! Yes I know I can’t take all the blame, but he had a hard time dealing with my personal difficulties (stress from outside the relationship)- he should have said, and I should have picked up on it more or reasoned myself to it. I feel terrible that I caused him this much stress. I’m also angry that he feels the need to tell me all this as we’re done now and he knows how much I had to deal with myself.

Yes atea this is definitely the beginning of a transition.

I don’t take anything from that my ex is still communicating was it would have to go very far for him not to respond at all.

Yes I think it’s possible that like you, I may reach a point in the future where I’ve had enough rejection. I don’t see it happening soon though as he’s being polite (apart from the hurtful things) and did say he has “ridiculously strong feelings” for me in his email.
I don’t know what to make of that! I’m confused that he has such strong feelings but doesn’t want to be with me ever again and doesn’t seem bothered about not seeing me again. Perhaps it’s a front as to not bicker on his decision or his feelings aren’t as strong as he says, or it’s that he feels being with me is just too hard despite the feelings he has. He has said he’s not in love with me anymore (though he loves me) so that probably contributes. It’s all so confusing isn’t it?

By the way I’m so happy to hear you’re doing better these days, and that your date went well! It does seem like you’re past the worst now, and being in a state of feeling numb is far better than before! I know you still have a long journey ahead of you, but perhaps it’s shorter than you think. I hope so for all of us, though I really cannot imagine it myself! I imagine I’ll still pine for him 10 years from now.

@unimare

Funny you should mention meeting him for a talk! Without having brought it up here yet, I am planning on showing up on his doorstep for a talk. I know a few of you may disagree with this but I’m quite sure I will go ahead with it anyway.
As he was so hot and cold around the time of break up, I need to meet him in person and see if he’s still fixed on his decision then. I don’t imagine it will change anything, but a talk might help to leave everything bad that happened between us in the past.

I’ve thought about whether or not it’s true or vindictive what he said about, and I think it’s a bit of both. It’s true and he’s happier now and proud of it, wanting to rub it in my face, also true he was in such a bad state during our relationship, but him telling me that and blaming it on me once it’s all done – I just don’t know. Perhaps a way of getting out of guilt.
Perhaps he felt I hijacked the role of being the one with the problems so the wants to highlight how it wasn’t just me finding things very difficult. I used to get very frustrated with that he would ONLY bring up his issues right after I had told him something that bothered me about him. To me it felt like he was throwing shade back at me, and as he never brought these things up on other occasions I assumed they weren’t that serious and that he was just trying to deflect from my issues (when I understand now that they were serious but he was attempting to suppress them though he couldn’t suppress once I opened up an emotional channel) – he has said this is what it was and that he got really hurt when I would open up a can of worms and not want to listen to the problems he had as well (as I accused him of deflecting).
Basically I overestimated his sensitivity and made false assumptions, judged him for ulterior motives like copping out of responsibility by deflecting, so I wasn’t listening well enough.

I have already apologised to him in my second email, and on the phone, in a very clear way whereby I have shown him that I’m aware of how he must have felt. But I do agree, it would be good to do it in person as well as to show how extremely sorry I am. I agree it’s probably best of me to be the bigger person first because I don’t think he would be otherwise!! After my second email (the apology one) he told me he would send me a similar email but needs time to figure out what to put in it.

“I feel like your relationship suffered due to poor communication – he couldn’t communicate what was bothering him and you couldn’t what was bothering you in a way that he was capable of understanding or responding” Yes! Absolutely! And the lack of communication was due to not being able to see the woods for the trees, we were together too much and lost our perspectives, we were also both very fearful of saying the wrong things to each other in case it would lead to arguments or a break up – and then it all became too much. When he moved out (it was a rushed thing where he didn’t even want to, and thought I wanted him to when I didn’t – yep lack of basic communication) after some time of being extremely emotionally unstable and being very cruel to me he got his perspective back and found our relationship to be unhealthy, also possibly the realisation that living without me was a relief, and decided to break up when I, out of frustration over his ambivalence, demanded a decision from him.

It’s all very painful for my ego, and so hard to know I hurt him so bad without knowing. Clearly he was being way too polite and bottling things up, and it all blew up which is why he became so cruel towards the end.

I agree with you that I should be focusing on seeing his side, which is most of what I been doing ever since it hit me a few weeks ago that his lack of empathy at face value could be suppressed guilt instead. It hit me hard to hear how bad it really was for him, but I’m glad he got my second email the very moment he sent me his as he then saw I had reached the same conclusions as him uninfluenced by anything he said.

I have to be careful though because this man has fooled me quite a few times and I’ve ended up being a doormat, not standing up for myself at all. He has been manipulative in the past so I have to be careful in recognising what’s manipulation and what’s true.

I’m sorry you had to hear your ex say he’s stopped loving you. I can’t imagine how hearing that would feel:( I hope you’re doing alright!
Yes it’s perfectly possible to love someone whilst not liking them as a person. Ironically I’ve said that exact thing to my ex once “I love you but I don’t know if I like you as a person” after he had deeply upset me and I questioned his character, so I second you there! My ex was of course very hurt by this in return, as I would have been myself had someone said that to me.

I also very well understand how you feel in that your ex has taken a lot away from you, I feel the same. There’s not much we can do about it other than look for hidden blessings! Also try to make up for those years.
And who knows, perhaps this was exactly how our lives were mean to play out, perhaps we will be able to connect those dots later on.

I’m not in a place where I can appreciate the happy memories yet. To me they’re just sad reminders of something that won’t happen again, a reminder that those memories weren’t enough for him to want to keep me around, and I wish I could rewrite them and have spent time with my friends or someone who would stick around instead. Anyhow it’s still possible that it’s all a huge blessing in disguise that will reveal itself later. I think that’s what we should take from it. Somehow this will all be useful!

unimare you’ve got to love yourself first, before anyone else can. I hope you do and that his comment hasn’t upset you too much. Don’t let one persons opinion determine anything about you. You determine yourself. In the end we should all place prices on ourselves and we should not be influenced by having been given a poor value estimate from another. Remember anyone could throw away a fine piece of art if they don’t know it’s value. KNOW your value and others will too!
Not sure if that helped any or was relevant but I hope so!

@Belle

You said he’s blaming me 100% like your ex. To a degree I think you’re right, that he’s finding it easier to blame me and say it was all terrible for him being in the relationship than to feel his own guilt for his behaviour (not even saying goodbye).  
However everything he says is true! He was depressed and highly stressed at the time which I can easily see now, retrospectively. It’s just that the fact that he was feeling so terrible isn’t my fault as he genuinely came across coldblooded on many occasions, I did definitely have reason to be as upset with him as I was, it’s just that we should have discussed his problems more in addition to my own.
I get that he feels resentment for that, albeit it was his own responsibility to come to me with the problems he had with me and to communicate his reservations as unimare put it.
I still feel bad for not being a bit smarter at the time though.

I’m also hoping, like you say, that in time he will realise how hard things were on my part and that he communicates this as to show he can place himself in my shoes and gets it.
I’m not holding my breath for that one though as it’s an issue that has always been there between us, the inability he has to show that he can place himself in my shoes. It’s always “BUT you did this to me 6 years ago!!!”.  Sort of what he’s doing now isn’t it? How he responded to my email of ranting about my feelings and direct questions to him by saying I gave him heart palps etc. He said sorry he upset me and blamed it on clouded judgement caused by the stress I gave him – again sort of the same isn’t it? He’s not saying “I’m so sorry, that never should have happened, I messed up badly and I understand how upset you are”. There’s always a but or because that twists it, invalidates my feelings, or makes it my fault.

Haha he actually blamed me once for that he found another girl pretty. Because I asked I had shifted his perception so it was therefore my fault.

So I don’t doubt he had a hard time with me, but I wish he could apologise properly for what he did wrong without somehow twisting that into being my fault. He did give me a proper apology for not saying goodbye to me, around xmas on the phone, and that’s about the first time I’ve had a proper one. He told me on the phone that recently is the first time he was able to mentalise himself in the third person. I find this so odd as I thought we all could! Perhaps it can explain some things.

Belle I can imagine it’s hard to deal with someone who will only hear what they want!! In a sense I think I may be guilty of this too because my ex did try to explain how he felt but all I heard was “I don’t care about your issue so I’m just trying to deflect it”. I think this is something that time and processing can solve, and I do believe your ex will get there! It may take him a little while though. I understood that I’d not been listening well enough from having spent time apart and going over old emails. Let’s hope he’s doing that!

It definitely sounds like your ex was talking prefabricated bollocks, but it is important to also explore whether he bottled things up like my ex did as well. Not having thought about his feelings, where they’re really coming from, it’s all coming out in different channels (like being upset about the parking lot). Men have so much pride and I think many of them would rather be mad about something that doesn’t emasculate them than something that does (your ex feeling less than as you broke up)
It’s all that conditioning like unimare said, they don’t want to seem weak so they find some excuse or other reason to be angry.

I agree, we get used to our situations and put up with them until something snaps, like how our exes snapped. I also agree everything should have been talked about and it was all poor communication for both of our relationships.

Not feeling heard must have been very difficult and I can understand how you broke up with him when you did. It’s hard when they won’t even listen to that they’re not listening. It makes it all seem futile, and I’m ashamed that this could be how my ex felt about me on the occasions he did try to tell me how he felt (after I brought something up).

I completely get that you canceled your date. I canceled one around a week ago as well, as it just didn’t feel right. I may be going on a date with hunk tomorrow, I’m waiting for his confirmation. My expectations have gone down about it and I feel it’s likely I could feel worse about my ex after – but I think it’s time for me to try this and that he’s the right one to meet.

Belle just let your ex be bitter, and keep apologising. Once you’ve done that, try backing off a bit to see if he comes crawling back a little.

@mike2014 thank you for your response

I really don’t know. You say if he’s got a need to say that he’s happier than ever and put the blame solely on me then he’s bullshitting and deflecting. And that if you really care about someone you don’t act like that.

I agree, but I think you can act like that and care, but – if you’re afraid of loosing someone you wouldn’t! Think about it… often people can be most rude to our families because we know they won’t just leave us!!
I don’t think our man exes are afraid of loosing us, thinking we’ll be there if they ever change their minds, which is why they aren’t worried about having to admit their mistakes. They probably do feel guilty (Belle your ex and your son) which is why they’re feeling the need to deflect blame away from themselves as to give them relief, on top of genuine hurt feelings. Maybe they do want to explore other options but can’t say that as they would feel too guilty for it, perhaps it’s easier to say there is something wrong with us. There is probably a lot to what they’re saying they’re upset about though but I don’t think in my case and possibly Belle’s it doesn’t quite justify the break up (my relationship was on the finish line of stress factors as he broke up).

I’m happy to hear you’re open and honest about mistakes Mike!! I really don’t know what to make of your ex… I’ve had a thought. What if she cheated on you and feels terrible about it, so she felt she had to break up? I can’t wrap my head around her, as she’s being so emotional around you.

————————————————————————————————————————

All this typing has been really confusing and a bit stressful. It makes me realise just how complicated it all is!
I’ve started questioning things all over again.. Was it all really this bad for him, is he deflecting, or is it a bit of both? Did he really bottle up guilt, or does he use that as an excuse to get away from the consequences of his bad behaviour? Does he just hate to be confronted about being wrong or having done something wrong?
So confusing. I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt though. I won’t get anywhere by being cross with him anyway so I’ll apologise extensively and see if that warms him up. If he does feel bad then I assume he would want to apologise to me properly once he doesn’t feel bitter towards me for what I’ve done to upset him, or once he doesn’t feel as guilty (bottled up as cold pride) when I’ve admitted enough that it’s very much my fault too.

I’m sorry for the length and probably a bit confusing and repetitive post here! I’m flushing things out! Can’t thank you guys enough for the feedback, and help to process everything! Oh and by the way, I dreamt that I was with my ex, giving him away to a younger, prettier thing and saying that yes, I believed she would be good for him. I was sad, but happy about his choice as I had thought she was a good person. Weird huh?

[Aphrodite]

@Belle

Just read this thing about men who are acting angry from guilt, from Rori Raye.
It’s saying what works is being totally authentic with them and speaking the truth WITHOUT making them responsible for anything you feel, and keeping your heart open and warm.

It says men are predictable when they’re angry, they get angry when they feel bad about themselves or feel ineffectual – that they can’t make things happen, can’t change their circumstances, help someone, or make us happy and may feel they’re always disappointing us. They could feel guilty for doing something that hurt us, or for something that made them feel like less of a man, like screwing up all the time.

If he’s angry from this he will typically: bark, blame you for anything he can find, put you down, attack you, bring up stuff he knows will push your buttons, ask questions that start a fight trying to provoke you to attack him, withdraw, gets sullen, quiet or depressed, tired, listless, buries himself in work, hobbies or friends, or starts up with other women.

These are habitual patterns they learned growing up and still use as survival mechanisms.
When we walk into their web of patterns like this, it triggers our web of patterns, our habitual response, which may again trigger theirs and so it continues.

It goes on to say that all a man wants is to feel good, to feel he’s not disappointing you, that he’s not ineffectual, that he’s your hero.
However we shouldn’t try to help them, as that could be seen as mothering and demeaning.

So be aware of how you respond to his habitual responses, and stop your typical response before you trigger his again in return.

Rori Raye says the best solution to this is to get silly, laugh, find all the humour you can in everything but don’t laugh AT him, laugh at yourself for something you forgot or something you saw during the day. I guess to make the situation less threatening – and to practice enjoying life regardless of how he’s behaving and not let it affect you as to trigger your response firing back at him.

What do you think of this @mike2014 anything to it?

My ex has said many times that he felt like he couldn’t make me happy.

Before the break up but after he moved out, I was acutely hospitalised for a stomach problem. He showed up and was very attentive, and I called him my hero as he helped me so much that day. I also told him very openly that I was so upset by something he had said before (a huge misunderstanding), that unless I had been hospitalised I didn’t know if I would have spoken to him at all. He then asked me if I wanted to move in with him to where he was staying!
Next day: He didn’t show up for visiting hours like he said he would. When I called 4 hours after visiting hours had begun, he was still at his home. I said “I thought you were supposed to be here four hours ago?”. He then got very moody as he had been stressed that day with lots to do, and when he showed up, told me it had been a mistake to ask me to move in with him.

So this really makes sense then! When I was calling him my hero, he wanted to live with me. When I was disappointed in him, and he probably felt guilty – he got angry and took it all back. I previously thought he had asked me to live with him out of fear of loosing me, but perhaps it was more that he felt like he was useful towards my well-being and happiness that day.

Does any of this ring a bell for your past relationship with you ex, Belle?

I’ve been very independent in a practical sense, so I definitely think my ex has had moments of not feeling useful and even emasculated, I’d always carry my own bags even when he wanted to help (my reasoning: I wanted to prove I was independent) and not let him pay for things when he wanted to (my reasoning: he felt obliged to pay, he had less cash at the time or this would make him happy). I didn’t get that what would have made him happy was to feel like a man, being able to look after his woman and to have her adore him for it. I was too busy trying to seem strong!

Through talking with my ex when I complained that he wasn’t being emotionally supportive enough though, he would say that he felt anything he tried to do to help would end up being wrong and result in an argument so he felt it safer to not do anything (he’s not a natural with emotional women).
When he didn’t do anything, he came across completely cold so I thought he didn’t care about my issues, not knowing he was really just afraid of how to handle the situation and of doing something wrong. I would then get upset with him for acting so cold or unaffected, thinking he didn’t love me, and it would lead to an argument. I would say things like “If you love someone you care about their issues!” and the poor man would tense up knowing we were arguing, what felt to him like a mine field where anything he said wrong could elevate the situation so he just went quiet, furthering my frustration and causing me low-self esteem as I thought he couldn’t care less, and then that argument would be one to look back on as not to want to go there again – his next tactic then being never to ask about my issues! Then I thought he definitely didn’t care about me as he wasn’t even bothered to ask.

I can see it all now. What a mess! I’ve already unraveled this and part of this was in my apology email to him, but I didn’t see it as clearly as now with the examples. My poor ex must have been really afraid, and I had absolutely no idea. I think he definitely DID NOT feel like my hero. So I guess I know what to do… be bloody grateful the next time he tries to help with anything, and thank him lots for the times he did help. Any other suggestions?

Does anyone relate to these sorts of situations?

[Belle]

Aphrodite, you have been busy!

Yes yes yes to Rori Raye!
A lot of it rings true! In fact all of it!

I too am hugely independant and have dug many holes for myself with my ex. It’s the modern phnonoman these days as us women are constantly being told to stand on our own two feet, be independant and match men. It’s only in the last 100 years that things have changed and up til now men were the head of households and main breadwinners. Can you imagine getting married and not being allowed to work anymore! Hahaha. That’s how it was.
Now it’s all about being equal, equal pay,equal opportunity but the fundementals haven’t changed. Men are men and need to feel to have a place in life but with these feminist changes that are happening men aren’t allowed to be men more and more, equally women can’t be women.
I’ve been guilty of being too independant, even my dad told me this the other day. I’ve had to be, I’ve responsibilities and it’s only me in this world so if im guilty of maybe being a bit bossy and getting my own way.
A friend only in the summer told me that I have to let my ex be a man even if it means I have to take a step back and allow my ex to make a mistake. For me, that’s the hardest thing ever in the world because I guess looking back im a control freak myself and need to feel everything is taken care of.

So my behaviour just carries on even when my ex is angry, I still stamp my feet which pushes him away more. I can understand a lot what you’ve written and I’ve been trying to address my behaviour but it’s the hardest thing ever. I can relate a lot of your behaviour to mine too.

It’s a tricky one to address because we think differently to them and in times of emotional upset we want support that they can’t give in the way we need it.

Communication helps but a profound understanding in other people is better.
Times like these is when we grow and learn to go forth as a better person, not so tunnelled visioned

Yes am guilty of making my ex he wasn’t good enough because my standards are stupidly high! It was a case where he was scared to do anything because it might be wrong! Haha. Yes, I’m a girlfriend from hell! Lol

[Aphrodite]

Haha @Belle I’ve been very busy indeed! Even managed to squeeze some exercise in there!

Hunk has canceled on me, but I’m meeting him this weekend (I hope, or I’m done with this back and forth planning).

Belle I’m glad you found you could relate to it too! It’s very interesting stuff! Perhaps we should let them sit on their high horses for a bit, and we’ll be the underdogs.
I’m finding it hard too though.

I want to respond to his response to my first email (the ranty one), however I just can’t do it without picking apart everything he’s saying… I really don’t think it would be clever of me to send that to him as he can’t stand being picked apart and “interrogated”. I don’t know what to do. On the one hand I want the issues between us to be done and dusted, the only way I can do that is to utter my opinions. On the other hand, I’m worried he’s going to take one glance at my response and think he’s so happy that drama is out of his life.

What to do, what to do..

Yes we really do need to allow them to be the ‘men’!!! And let them try even if they mess up, and reward them for trying. They want to feel useful (I think) without us being needy for them. I am a bit split on it though because I can’t imagine a man wanting a pushover! I bet your fire is what your ex loves about you anyway! I want mike’s opinion on this stuff.

Pretty sure you weren’t a girlfriend from hell Belle lol

[Belle]

Aphrodite,

It’s a difficult situation to know how to talk to them right now. I’ve basically agreed that it’s the right thing to do to split up (blatant lie! Hehe) but this has allowed me to also speak my feelings. He’s been ok and open to that but on one side he’s saying he will read and listen to what I’ve to say but then on the other he said I come across as if I know everything and that he doesn’t put his feelings down because I won’t listen so pointless. I responded by that’s his choice and that it’s a communication problem and if he doesn’t want to communicate then I can’t force him.
I always re read my mails to him especially after sending just to make sure I’ve not thrown my weight around. I don’t want to leave any gap to where he can judge me in a negative way.
I’ve highlighted the lack of communication but it’s very clear he’s still in his man cave. However, lately he’s been responding to me and always very quickly. I think the agreeing to the break up has been the best move I’ve made. I’ve also,put my,points across why it’s the best thing to go our separate ways. Haha, I’ve tried to get through the front door with him and declaring my love etc but clearly that didn’t work so now trying round the back door with different tactic! Lol
He will think of anything and everything to convince himself why it’s not going to work. So, I’m agreeing with it all. I still give my opinion of my thoughts though but never in a bull in china shop way.
One thing the tarot lady said to me, stand your ground with him. It rings true and will carry on having respect for myself.
My ex said the other day that he didn’t have broken relationships, I said oh, so you left your wife.. Isn’t that a broken relationship? And us? Broken.. Yes?
Then he said what about me in which I responded by saying yes my relationship have been diabolical and I’m going through much thought and personal change, reflection to why I end up in this situation and what changes I need to make.
Obviously he didn’t have much to say after that!

So now the door is open to at least communication then everything I say at least he can sum up what he wants from it. He’s still bitter as hell but obviously not that bitter he can’t talk to me. I don’t feel so needy either as I know he will respond.
It’s a long road ahead still and not sure of outcome but he’s communicating and he’s far far from indifferent.

There are similar traits with your ex Aphrodite. Yes they need to be top dogs and independant fiery ladies like us can be fantastic fun but we need to remember their genetic make up of the hunter man who likes to beat there chest!!

[Belle]

Yes Mike, time to wake up! We need your opinion !

[Belle]

Great,as soon as said than done he sends me a email saying he sees these emails going nowhere and can’t see the point. He also said that we have different out looks on life hence why we don’t get on and he’s glad he broke the round a bout.

[atea1234]

wow lots to catch up on this morning!

@aphrodite, my ex has been very polite too and he still tells me he loves me when we talk. its not necessarily that i feel rejected after we talk – sometimes i feel reassured, but the bottom line is that at this point in time, he doesnt want to reconcile, so I’ve reached a point where i don’t want any kind of interaction with him until he can say “I’m positive i did the right thing and I’ve moved on” or “I’ve dated other girls and realized no one compares to you and i know i want to be with you now”. anything else is far too confusing.

i think your situation is different as he is just starting to communicate with you how he was feeling at the end of the relationship and its important to know these things. on the night my ex and i broke up he told me “i think i might be falling out of love and its scaring me”. when i later asked him what he meant, he said he hadn’t been feeling the same drive to hang out or text me or put the necessary effort into our relationship. he told me he couldn’t decipher if it was just because we had been together for so long and he was feeling kind of in a rut or if it was something more than that but he was hoping some time away from me would help him sort out his feelings. i don’t think his feelings are anywhere near sorted yet which is way i don’t want to talk to him! I’m not using nc as a tactic to manipulate him into coming back though, so I’m very supportive of you reaching out to your ex for any and all explanations or clarifications you want. this isn’t a game! we need to give it our all to try to reconcile and if that fails we need to make sure we get as much closure as possible before we entirely close the door. I’m glad you’ve recognized so many things about your relationship. just remember not to blame yourself for how he felt. it was his job to speak up and tell you how he was feeling. most people go into adult relationships with some kind of personal baggage and we need partners who are supportive and who know how to deal with this! i agree that you would benefit from a face to face meeting with your ex. I’m not sure it would really change anything, but i think for your own peace of mind to be able to express what you want to say honestly and freely and listen to his responses would be helpful. if nothing else, after 10 years you deserve a goodbye in person!

i do think it sounds like communication was a problem in your relationship and thats a problem that can be solved so thats a positive. your ex still admitting he has feelings is huge. don’t give up hope!! sounds like you’ve been doing a lot of soul searching and self reflecting and i think it will pay off for your next relationship whether with him or someone else!

@belle, I’m sorry your ex has turned cold again. its really interesting what you said about the independent woman. i don’t think my ex and i had that issue in our relationship. I’m probably the most girly girl in the world and he was very much a stereotypical guy. i did defer to him for many things and i was dependent on him in a lot of ways. i am also the baby of my family, so am kind of used to being taking care of by other people and my ex definitely filled that role. i do think in retrospect i was a bit critical of him though and i also had VERY high expectations. I’ve been thinking about this a lot since we broke up. i expected him to be the perfect boyfriend all the time and if he did something i wasn’t happy with, i ALWAYS called him out on it. this sometimes caused him to not tell me things i wouldn’t be happy about him doing. for example if he were at a party with a girl i didn’t like, he wouldn’t mention it. or if he had too much to drink or was smoking weed with his friends, he wouldn’t always tell me. and then we would fight because he would “lie” to me, but in retrospect i think expecting perfection put too much pressure on him. after all, he was still very young, we aren’t married yet, and I’m not his mother (even though often times i felt like it). i think a lot of our problems were just that i was light years ahead of him in maturity. i would never understand why he would want to be up smoking and playing video games with his friends till 6am, but looking back now i guess these are the years in his life to do this and not when he’s married with kids. sometimes i wish i could tell him all of the thoughts I’ve had about my contribution to the relationship ending but i think it wouldn’t be productive because these were issues we could’ve ironed out and i think he would’ve left regardless just because he wasnt sure of his feelings for me. I’m starting to question how i would even handle him coming back now. if after 7 years he wasn’t sure if i was “the one” then I’m not sure he is. i feel like after spending so many years with someone you should know. I’m not sure and i guess i can see both sides and wanting to date others but its still very confusing to me. again, i think this comes down to an issue of timing and if/when he feels ready to discuss the future of our relationship how I’m feeling. I’m feeling stronger day by day and adapting to not having him in my life. there are days i still miss him terribly but there are other days where I’m able to knock him off the pedestal. i know all things happen for a reason and i am wondering what good will come from this. will i meet someone else eventually who is better suited for me? or will my ex return with a renewed sense of commitment and appreciation for me? waiting it out and doing this time is really the hardest part. i think I’m giving myself 1 year from my break up to sort through all of this. we broke up end of september so i feel like at that point if we haven’t gotten closer to reconciling ill be better able to open myself up for a new relationship.

i know sticking to nc is so hard belle, but i really don’t think you have an option right now. you’ve told him you agree with the break up but continuing to email him and ask for answers contradicts that. every time you get a response from him thats cold, it must crush you. i really think you need to give yourself small nc goals. start by going one week and see if you can make it through. its so so difficult but i think in the long run its the only thing that will help your ex admit his mistakes and be open to having a discussion in the future. you don’t need to keep it for 3 months or any amount of time that seems too great, but just take it one day at a time. if you can keep it for a few weeks you can reach out and be friendly and see how he responds without bringing up the relationship. whenever you feel like contacting him, post in here!! i know you can do it! even if you haven’t hit that point yet, you will hit the point that you don’t want to reach out anymore, i promise you that. it took me over 4 months to reach there but I’m 100% there now. i have no urge to talk to my ex unless he initiates. of course i still miss him and want him back but i also know if i revolve my life around getting him back it most likely wont work and i will be miserable. if i stick to nc and try to move on, chances are better for him to come back and if he doesnt, i will be taking baby steps on the path to healing. just take things one day at a time and try to give him his space as best you can.

[Aphrodite]

Thank you for the responses

@Belle I wonder if he’s punishing you now for agreeing to the break up?
Whether this makes him feel less than again?

@atea1234 you’re doing so well with your NC and I understand how it’s easier once you’ve gotten everything off your chest! I’m happy you’ve reached this point! Even if you take a step back now and then don’t worry, you’ve come very far!

I’ll respond here at a later point, I’ve typed way too much today. x

[Aphrodite]

I’m missing my ex a lot tonight, and that physical pain in my chest won’t budge. I went through some of his stuff that I’m going to send him, which didn’t help it much!
I am completely incapable of imagining a future without him, it just does not compute with me. I keep thinking that deep down he’s the same, he’s just confused, but reading that over makes me sound like the crazy ex girlfriend who’s in denial! Yep.. I have to see him in person to be able to tell where he stands.
I have to be careful now, as I’ve opened up a line of communication with him, where I can easily find myself feeling rejected again – but I guess it beats not trying!

@Belle

I agree, it is hard knowing how to communicate with them now. Like I said already, I’m wondering if he had a bit of a negative reaction to your agreement on the break up as he now doesn’t see the point in the exchange of emails. As you agree with him on breaking up then he’ll no longer have the power over you, which he may not like – if that makes sense.
Him saying he doesn’t see a point in further communication could be his way of trying to gain back that control, and see how you react to it. Maybe he’s testing you. I really don’t know but I think it’s a possibility. I think your ex has some patience, so it would take a while for him to reach out after this if you both have radio silence, but I do think he will. He’s too far from being indifferent to just let it go like this in my opinion.

I really don’t know what it means that your ex has been responding, and responding quick. My ex does the same, but then again he has always been quick to respond. I don’t know if it means anything at all.

I completely feel you on how you tried to go through the front door with declaring love, and now you’re going for the back door by agreeing with him. I think we all try everything we can!
I think it’s good that you’re standing your ground, but just be careful to not come off too strong. I’m sure you’re able to balance that well.

Oh absolutely Belle, you’ve got the correct impression of my ex there, he definitely wants to be top dog and doesn’t like it much if I’m too successful. On the other hand, I think he now doesn’t see me as good enough anymore. I wonder if he’s happiest competing!

As for saying you have a different outlook on life and hence you don’t get on, that’s quite similar to what my ex said. He told me we handle emotions differently and that’s why we can’t be together (a reason on one occasion). What type of reasons are these? If I were to break up with someone I would tell them up front that I just don’t fancy them in that way anymore or that I want something else for myself. No beating around the bushes. I don’t feel like either of our exes have given valid reasons for breaking up.

What are your thoughts? What’s the plan?

@atea1234

I get that you don’t want any interaction with him until he’s decided! Being in that confused state is no where to live, it’s too turbulent. I’m very proud of you, you know!

Yes I agree, it is important to get clarifications and explanations. I know so damn well that I won’t be able to be friendly towards him for an extended period of time unless we have worked through our issues, so it is really imperative for me.

I asked my ex today if he wanted a response back from his last email even though it could stress him out. He told me that he would appreciate that, so that’s good. It seems he is keen to work our past issues out as well so that we can both leave it in the past. I don’t know if he wants this for me or for him, but I’m hoping it’s for him as well.
I do blame myself for how he felt. I’m usually quite good at reading people, but I’ve completely failed with him! I think that’s what happens when you become absorbed in your own issues. He should have spoken up, but he told me it wasn’t until we had been apart that he realised how bad it had been for him. Yes, we all need supportive partners, but it’s important to be aware of how others can be sensitive to our own issues, and I overestimated him in this capacity. He’s not super sturdy when it comes to emotional matters, but I’d still want him over someone else.

Yes!! I do deserve a goodbye in person. I won’t be telling anyone that I’m going to see him as I know they will try to talk me out of it, and not understand. My family and friends are worried I will get back with him because of what he did to me, they don’t want to see me crushed again, so you guys will be the only ones to know!

Honestly though I don’t even know if I would take him back if he asked me back tomorrow, though I would definitely date him. I just NEED some sort of security in that he might possibly someday want to be with me again and I desperately want him in my life. If I don’t get that, then I’ll deal with then. One step at a time. I keep having this gut feeling that he feels the same as me! It’s so annoying!!

Yes, I think if our expectations are too high that we definitely scare them off from being honest and open with us. I think the best way to deal with this is to extensively reward them when they do things right, so they will want to be those boyfriends for us, in stead of always getting at them for messing up. Usually females are ahead of men mentally, so I don’t think it’s strange how you felt that way about your ex. Perhaps that’s different with the man you’re dating?
I agree, I don’t see that there is that much reason to tell him these things as his reason for leaving was for wanting to cease the day, and be young while he can before committing for the rest of his life. I don’t doubt that he has a lot of respect for you and sees you as perfect marriage material – after all that’s what he said to his friend! So it’s not about you.
I don’t know if he’s the one for you either atea, unfortunately (I know you’re impatient like me) only time will tell. I know this is the hardest part, not knowing what the future holds. We have to somehow come to peace with that, and practice living in the now rather than in the past or future. Brush those worries off!
One year until you’re ready for a relationship sounds reasonable. I’m not going to plan anything, right now I’m just working towards embracing the unknown to the fullest, and having faith that somehow this will all work out in my favour.

[atea1234]

@aphrodite, im so sorry about the pain in your chest. i know it all too well. i still get it a lot of mornings. its not as often or as sharp as it used to be, or maybe I’m just used to it but i know how much pain you must be in. i think your ex asking for a response back is very positive. even if he doesnt want to reconcile in the future, he doesnt want bad blood between you two and thats important. if he were indifferent then he would absolutely not want a response – he would want the communication to be over so i think you should take that as a positive sign.

i also completely understand what youre saying about not telling anyone if you go to see him. my family and friends feel very strongly that i stay away from my ex!! they loved him when we were together but after seeing how much pain he caused me for so long, they really don’t want me going back to him. plus they are probably biased but they think if he didn’t appreciate me and was willing to give me up then i need to find someone who loves me more and is more committed than that. I’m not sure how i feel. part of me feels that way but another part of me can understand his desire to experience others. i really don’t know. my opinion changes hourly. but anyway back to your situation, you need to do what works for you. if it will help you to see him, you should go for it. I’m a big believer in following your own gut and doing whatever makes you happy and not having to justify or explain it to anyone else.

the guy I’m dating now is 5 years older than me which is probably why i haven’t noticed the difference in maturity levels as much. he’s been in two serious long term relationships already, has a very demanding job, and is definitely far over the partying days my ex is still really enjoying. i also don’t really know him well enough to make a judgment on how mature or immature he is. we don’t have many mutual friends – i met him at a party end of november and we met once a couple weeks after that for drinks and then he kept asking me out again but i wasn’t ready and finally gave in. i full on know he is a distraction and a rebound and will probably only last another week or two but thats fine.

yes, i don’t think theres really anything i could say to my ex right now that would change his mind. i think this is the most frustrating part for me. i by no means think that I’m perfect, but i was a pretty great girlfriend and my ex and i had a very stable, happy, and healthy relationship. we had drama here and there but we were long distance for many years and young, so i don’t think our problems were out of the ordinary at all. it wasn’t like we were fighting more towards the end or anything, i think my ex just knew this was something he wanted to go through with at this time. i do think he still has respect and love for me and I’m sure that he always will – regardless of the future we were each others first loves and first everything and we will always have a special bond. i do think he thinks I’m marriage material which is why he let it go for now – he’s not ready. i honestly think in his dream world if someone could guarantee him to be single for the next 3 years and then marry me, he would take it. i will say though over the past 2 weeks I’ve really been thinking he could lose me throughout this – I’m not sure he’s come to that realization yet but i really do feel myself moving on and it scares me sometimes. sometimes ill feel happy and then i remember i don’t have him in my life and i even feel guilty sometimes!! i truly thought i would never smile again when we first broke up and almost 5 months later i am starting to feel a shift. i wonder how ill feel in another 5 months. i don’t think its likely i would reconcile with him years down the road as once I’ve finally put this all behind me it will be too late. again, i think it’s a matter of timing when he feels “ready” and i don’t see that being soon really.

i agree with you – no one knows if he’s the one for me – not you, not me, and not him! i am sooo impatient but I’m also learning to just let things happen. i know only time will tell. lots of couples break up, date others, and get back, but lots of couples also break up and date others and end up falling in love with others and moving on. theres truly no way to tell right now. when i last spoke to my ex almost three weeks ago regarding the next girl he is seeing he told me this “doesnt change our situation at all”. so I’m not really sure what that means. i don’t think him seeing someone has necessarily clouded his feelings towards our relationship but i do know he’s nowhere near reconciling. when we spoke 3 weeks ago he even told me, “i do love you and i do miss you but i can’t get back together right now. I’m not ready and i want to be positive if i commit again”. so i need to let time do its job! i just hate not knowing how much time he will need to have clarity will take. i hate not knowing what will happen in the future. its so stressful, but i guess thats a part of life. I’m a crazy planner and control freak so not being able to plan or manipulate this part of my life is driving me crazy! i just need to have faith that everything will work out how and when its supposed to. i keep reminding myself I’m only 22, single, in new york city – it could be worse! I’m so young still. even if it takes me 5 years to meet someone else, i have all the time in the world. i can’t stress about planning how my life will look 10 years from now.

its funny what you said about not getting back together with your ex if he asked you tomorrow, but starting by dating. i feel the same way actually. i definitely haven’t gotten past all the hurt and resentment my ex caused and I’m not over him dating someone else so if we tried to reconcile now, it would fail. as much as i hate to admit it, i need the time and space now just as much as he does. if we do reconcile it needs to be on a clean slate when enough time has passed and we are both happy about where we are in life and confident about reconciling.

everything will work out for you how its meant to!! i still believe in gut feelings. I’m a tad bit research obsessed (thats what happens from being a masters student!) and I’ve been doing so much research reading different stories and blogs about relationships. reconciliations happen all the time but they are often only successful after enough time has passed and both people have let go of the initial relationship. of course theres no formula to reconciling – some people stayed friends with their exes, others lost touch for years. i think the bottom line is we can plan and scheme and strategize but at the end of the day, its out of our control. whatever is meant to be will be and its up to our exes to initiate any reconciliation since they ended the relationship. but we will all be fine eventually – with or without our exes! we will meet amazing other people if this doesnt work out for us, but i also believe in not losing hope or giving up faith if you believe what you had was true love. sometimes we just need to be patient and ride out the hard times before good things come our way!

sorry for the rant!!!

[mike2014]

Havnt really had a chance to read much other than aohrodites first two messages.

Honestly, I feel my perception of my actions is probably different from my exes. People react a certain way when being confronted. At the end I would often say, I think it’s great you can point out my faults which I already realize, but you get upset if I point out your faults. She would respond with like what? I would just say never mind because I didn’t want to lose her or upset her. Girls have no problem being hypocritical in nature. I enjoy to point out shit people say they dislike about others, but then do themselves. People really don’t get happy with me about stuff like that. I can really get under people’s skin in a very subtle way.

When it comes to what Rachel Ray lol I forget the chicks name you referenced. I don’t think I became angry about it, but just became depressed and embarrassed so I shut down. Maybe I did become angry. I really don’t know. I struggle with people’s definition of what angry is. I just feel I got embarassed so I shut down. I’m also a person who when confronted with something has no problem kind of laughing. People also do not like that. If I don’t feel something really warrants a response because it’s trivial and frivolous I just kind of laugh it off. My way of deflecting I guess. I can be very Jekyll and Hyde honestly. I react differently depending on the day. I feel like I’m very different than most people. I usually know what someone is going to be mad about before they confront me. I do a lot of self inner thought. Iv said before people who like me think I’m warm and personable and nice. People used to tell me that so and so doesn’t like me because they think I’m a jerk and that I think Im arrogant. I’m not really sure but I can be quiet so maybe they associate that with arrogance at times. I really tried to not show her anger, but maybe that isn’t true.

I think the only time other than post break up I cried in front of my ex was in September about 7 months before the break up. I was leaving her house and I think she was going to consider ending things. It was probably our 2nd real talk in our whole relationship where I thought it was a wrap. I just flat out said Im Embarrassed with how everything in my life is going and feel shitty I can’t do A,b, and C. I become overwhelmed with emotions and had to turn away. I remeber she was behind me as I talked and I was sitting on the step not looking at her. I didn’t want her to see I was tearing up. I really just felt defeated with life and she admitted she was in the same boat. I agreed to show her more affection and be open with my i guess depression. Before I left I got up and turned around and saw she had been crying also and I gave her a hug told her I loved her so much and asked if I would see her the next day. She said yes. Things got really good until January and then I hit a wall again and shut my self off from the world. She told me post break up she didn’t know what to do at that point and it scared her.

To my defense my ex also was in a big rut. I mentioned before how she was very upset with many things and as she got older her insecurities on certain things increased. When someone continues to bring up a certain thing it affects the partner as well. Even in December she had to bring up how she doesn’t look good and this and that. I just said well I still think you are very beautiful and always did. She just said nope and shook her head. It gets hard to deal with that when someone has something in their head. She started to separate herself from me as well because of this insecurity. She always had a thing about her weight which is crazy because she isn’t really that heavy at all. When we first met probably the first 4 or 5 years I couldn’t leave my hands off her lol. At the end I still didn’t want to but she became kind of not wanting that attention because she didn’t feel good about herself and it wore on me. This is why when people have brought up well maybe she cheated on you…I just can’t see that because of her insecurities with herself. I don’t think she could have been open with someone like that. Maybe I’m wrong and she did. I did ask her and she flat out denied it and said she isn’t that type of person and honestly it doesn’t match her character.

I might have missed the boat on the questions

Ask away and I’ll try to answer more tomorrow

[mike2014]

I just really have been doing a lot of inner thought.

I feel like I know the reason why it ended. If you take our first 6 and a half years it was a lot different than our last two years. We had 2 serious talks over the last two years. Before that it was like the honeymoon phase. I would change for awhile and then revert back to being kind of shut off in the last two year.

We both got in a rut personally and it was hard for both of us and that was a huge huge reason for the breakup. Also she told someone who told me she said we reached a stalemate and were not progressing and moving forward. Like she said to me it’s like a weight was lifted off her shoulders. I can’t argue with any of those two reasons. I don’t need her to tell me that cause I already know. A big part of me does think she is probably better of without me. The other part says that I have changed a lot and worked on myself and am back to the person from the first 6.5 years of our relationship. I know now what she deserves from me and would be such a better partner. I have tried to show her the more positive caring person she fell in love with through our talks and meet ups. I remember her saying one night that she appreciates how supportive I have been and positive and that even though we aren’t together i have been there for her more than family and friends. This was when we were talking a lot in the first two months. She also said this is the person she always wanted and who I was in the beginning in October when we met up and that she feels bad because of all the nice things I have done since the breakup. Like the flowers and thanking her parents through email for how great they were to me. I think it was all just to late.

I also struggle with what the definition of love really is. I don’t think I really understood totally what it meant until we broke up. I now understand just how much I really did love her. It’s like they say, you don’t know what you have/had until it’s gone.

[Author]

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