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I’m looking for specific advice on how to apply Kevin’s techniques in my situation. I would really appreciate it. The story is long and complicated, please bear with me!
I became friends with a girl towards the end of her marriage. We both share a common interest (a sport) and we were abroad at an event together. We realised we had loads in common and started hanging out when we got home. I had no designs on her at this stage and always respected her marriage.
However, after the first time we saw each other (standard first date really!), I felt awkward and was about to tell her that she really should have been doing all of this with her husband instead, when she told me they had decided to get separated. I asked her if she wanted some space and she said she needed a friend now more than ever. So we continued to meet up. Her husband tried to reconcile with her but she turned him down. She continued to hang out with him, he was aware she was hanging out with me, and they’re still friends as far as I know.
After a few weeks we had a chat about how we were feeling and she said she wasn’t sure how she felt about me, but wanted me to be rational and just stay friends with her. I agreed, but a few days later she invited me over for dinner, one thing led to another…
She said she couldn’t stop thinking about me. After a couple of weeks, she told me she was in love with me. I was taken aback, but I felt very strongly about her too, we had an amazing connection and got along so well. I thought that if she felt ready to say this, she must really mean it, and I fell deeply in love with her. We were inseparable, messaging all of the time and for the next two months, our time together was fantastic. The only issue was that we were both conscious of our reputations and did not want anyone to know we were seeing each other, so soon after her marriage. I was happy not to label anything, and always said that as long as we were in love, it did not matter if anyone knew or what we called it.
Once a week or so she would feel upset about her marriage and have second thoughts, but she would always tell me and I would invariably make her feel better and cheer her up. She was open and honest with me, and I tried to make her feel special and show her I loved her a different way every day.
I wasn’t able to see her on Xmas after saying that I probably would be able to, due to family commitments. She said she felt like a nuisance in my life. She spent Xmas morning alone and then hung out with a colleague of hers from work, who then told her he liked her. She put it down to drunk talk and went home.
I hadn’t heard from her and I felt very guilty, so I made a point of surprising her with coffee and a meal at home the following day. We slept together (she initiated it), but later she said she felt used and that I had only come over to sleep with her. I assured her this wasn’t true (which it wasn’t!), that if her landlady had been home I wouldn’t have been able to come in, and that I just wanted to let her know I cared. I had no expectations, and had been fully prepared to go straight home. She accepted this and we had good chats for the rest of the day.
We met up a few days later and she was in bad form, saying cruel things. She pushed my buttons and I was annoyed with her, and I called her out for the way she was acting. I walked her home and left her to the door. We texted later and she apologised but also thought that I had said some harsh things. I apologised too and told her I loved her. She just said “thanks for all the love”. That annoyed me a bit more! I said it to her and she said she didn’t deserve to be loved. I assured her she did and that I wasn’t going to stop.
We met up once again on New Year’s and she said we should dial it back a bit, that everything was too intense. I agreed. We said we would continue being “friends with benefits”. We drank and went back to hers. We said “I love you” several times to each other and the following morning when I left, she thanked me for understanding and said she loved me again.
I was busy and away over the following two weeks as I was playing and she wasn’t. It didn’t go well for me, but she supported me and we kept in touch, once or twice a day, much less than before (so I felt I was holding up my end of dialling things back a bit). However, she got very sick during the second week, so each day I sent her get well soon messages and gifs. I was really worried about her.
When my travelling was over, her birthday was coming up. She said she was going to go drinking with her colleagues from work. I was hurt, as I had a present for her, but I just said we could meet up on another day. She ignored the message. I messaged her the following day, she said she had a long day in work, asked how my day was, and said goodnight. I asked her if she wanted to meet up and she ignored me again for two days. I wished her happy birthday and again she thanked me but just killed the conversation by saying “have a good day”. She did the same the following day. I was getting fed up, as this was so different to her usual behaviour, but I asked her just to have a chat to make sure we were on the same page.
She told me she felt fine, but that she regretted saying “I love you” so soon (it was such a big commitment) and felt weak for having gotten into some sort of relationship with me so soon after her marriage, that it was a bad start, but that we could stay friends. She appreciated having me there as it would have been much more difficult for her if I hadn’t been.
I felt very hurt and used. I told her so, and said that to find out that she never really loved me was unbelievable. I sent the message out of anger. She apologised and said I had every right to hate her, but that it wasn’t fair to say I had been used, she really was in love with me. I was due to see her a couple of days later (we coach children together). I was in a good mood and talked to her but, afterwards I told her I didn’t want her to speak to me again. She asked if there was anything she could do to make it better, but I ignored her. She said she understood, that she felt very hurt herself and shouldn’t drag anyone into her mess with her, and wished me luck.
After a week I messaged her apologising, saying I realised I was just being silly, that I was over it and had moved on, and I wished her luck. She said she understood and felt bad for the way she acted too. She also wished me luck. I haven’t spoken to her since and that was almost four weeks ago.
I put up one post on Facebook during this time telling a story about some travelling I was doing that went wrong and she reacted with a shocked/concerned emoji along with a few other people. I still didn’t break NC. I discovered this site about a week later and have been reading everything since!
I am due to see her at a competition this weekend and just wonder how I should act around her? Should I bring up anything? I will also see her for coaching in a week’s time, just the two of us.
I feel like she was infatuated with me rather than in love with me, and that I was just a rebound guy ultimately. However, the love was absolutely real for me. We had a wonderful connection and none of her baggage bothered me. We often talked about a future together and the good times were incredibly good. I feel that if I can be more laid back/less intense and more objective, and if she is emotionally ready, we could have a very special relationship.
I also feel like I’ve already sent a sort of “elephant in the room” text without knowing it when I apologised four weeks ago. I’m not sure how things will go this weekend or if she’ll say anything to me. Do I realistically have a chance to get her back? I would really appreciate any advice anyone can offer. Thank you in advance.
As to taking things slow, it sounds like neither of you did that. How long was her marriage and is she divorced yet? Any children?
It takes a long time to recover from the emotional hurt and damage of a broken marriage and divorce. Maybe she needs time to sort out her feeling for you.
“.. I told her I didn’t want her to speak to me again.” Then you apologized, told her you have moved on and wished her luck and she wished you luck too. To me it sounds like you wanted the connection to end and I’m sure she thought the same. So.. since you’re the one who ended things, it’s up to you to try and reconnect if you want to. But it would be better to just be cordial and polite whenever you see her and try to work through any issues you have with each other at a much later time.
Thank you very much for your reply. She was married for a year, no children. It will take her a few years to be fully divorced, but she is legally separated. She’s still in her early to mid 20s, I’m late 20s.
I was very hurt and confused as to how everything fell apart so quickly, and why she had (in my view at the time) treated me so cruelly and ignored my messages, when we had been so open and honest with each other before. So I asked her to give me some space. Then I felt bad about the message I had sent her, I realised she must have been conflicted and didn’t know the right way or time was to tell me how she felt, and perhaps I shouldn’t have sent her such an angry message. I also didn’t want her to think I was needy, and I felt that sending her a genuine but brief apology would give me closure and also make her feel better and less guilty, as it seemed she really was sorry for how things worked out. She wanted to break up, so I felt it was the right thing to do to apologise and give her the space she needed without worrying about how I felt.
Since then I’ve still been thinking about her a lot and remembering all of the fantastic times we had. At first I thought I was wrong about her, but I realise now that I fell in love with her for all of the right reasons, and that she is the person I thought she was. I’m still not exactly sure why she decided she didn’t want to continue our “relationship”, whether it was a loss of attraction to me, or if she just realised she wasn’t ready for it, but I do know what I would do differently if we tried again. So, if I just treat her normally, be polite this weekend, and when I work with her next weekend, do you think I should wait much longer than normal to try to reconnect with her?
Should I follow the 30 NC and message her a few days after I see her, or give it a lot more time? I will be seeing her for work every three weeks or so and it’s just the two of us. I really care about her and want what’s best for her, and I wouldn’t want to rush into anything if she’s not ready. We would need to take things slowly and be honest about our relationship to others as well. Do you think I should try to reconnect over the next few weeks or would it be too early? Thank you so much again!
Part of your problem is that you remember the good times and lost your objectivity. It’s important that you use your common sense here. If you can judge how she might feel by her words and actions, you could reach your own conclusions as to when to try and reconnect. Using the 30 day no contact give her time to miss you and consider what she wants to do and for you to do the same.
A divorce does not take a few years and maybe that’s a stall tactic. I think it’s odd you would be vague about your ages..
“We would need to take things slowly and be honest about our relationship to others as well.” This is good except the part about relationships to others. Asking about other guys conveys jealousy and neediness. Just be confident in who you are and what you want.
Good luck and keep us posted:)
Thank you again! I will try to be objective and aware that I may be viewing things through rose-tinted glasses.
In my country, married couples do need to be separated/living apart for five years before they can get divorced! And I’m sorry, I wasn’t being deliberately vague, she’s just turned 24 and I’m 27.
What I meant about “being honest about our relationship to others” was that we need to be publicly together, and not lying to everyone and pretending we’re not together just to protect our reputations (she felt it would reflect badly on both of us if we were publicly a couple, when most of our mutual acquaintances didn’t even know she was no longer married!).
Anyway, I just arrived at the competition I mentioned, and she smiled and said hello to my father, while ignoring me completely. It’s possible she didn’t see me at all, but that’s probably still not the best start! I will still be perfectly nice to her if we do talk, but I don’t think I’ll approach her for a chat, just smile, say hello and nod if the opportunity arises. Thank you again for all your support and I will keep you posted!
I have noticed she is deliberately avoiding me. Looked in my direction a few times but avoids eye contact and in general seems to be trying to keep to herself. She again spoke to my father and told him how her game went. I’m not sure if I should approach her and just be friendly, or just wait and see if she approaches me. No idea why she’s avoiding me now when we have to work together next weekend. Thank you again for your help!
You could approach her and ask her about the game, but keep it friendly and short.
Thank you. She made eye contact with me last night and we shared a smile and a “Hello”. She was taking photos of people around the tournament (it’s a hobby of hers) and she took a photo of me and tagged me in it on Facebook, so that was nice. She had breakfast alone both mornings and I didn’t see her hanging around at all last night, her room-mate was out but perhaps she just went to bed.
Today, I happened to be sitting near where she was going to be playing (without realising it) and she approached me and we had a brief chat.
It was pleasant and brief, I made a joke about my game that morning, she laughed and said that she had lost her game and had stopped caring about the tournament. She made some quip about “giving up on life”. She mentioned she was having lunch with a guy who plays on the same team as her (I’ve known him since we were kids too). I know they’re friends, but I wasn’t sure if she was testing me by mentioning that or if she was just making conversation. Either way I wasn’t phased and just continued the conversation. We talked briefly about the coaching we do together and that was all. She went to get her bus after her game finished but I hadn’t finished playing, so we passed by each other a few times but didn’t interact.
I will see her next Sunday and we’ll be working with different groups of kids in different rooms. She may want to get lunch with me or she might prefer to be by herself. Not sure if I should ask her to lunch. I don’t know if she’s over me or her marriage, or how long I should wait before trying to contact her online again. Maybe I should just see how next Sunday goes first? Thank you again for all of your advice and support! It really helps!
When did you meet her and how long did you date? You could ask her to lunch, but don’t be disappointed if she doesn’t accept. Yes, see how next Sunday goes, but don’t contact her online unless you think she would welcome it. BTW: What’s the sport (game)?
“She made some quip about “giving up on life”. This sounds melodramatic! You might ask her why she would make such a comment. It might open up a conversation about why she’s depressed..
Thank you again for your reply and for reading all of these lengthy messages!
So do you think next Sunday I should approach her first and ask if she’d like to get lunch? Or should I wait and see if she comes to me? We’ll be working in separate rooms down the corridor from each other. I’d say she’d be happy to go for lunch and have a normal chat, but maybe I should keep it very casual and friendly? I am conscious having read all of the articles on this site that I shouldn’t avoid talking about real issues so that I don’t end up in the friend zone, but I also don’t want to push her to talk about her personal life if she’s not ready to. It’s all a bit tricky!
I met her briefly about a year ago, we were coaching together same as now except we didn’t interact much. We had our first proper conversation in June and later she admitted she had a bit of a crush on me after that, noticing the way I spoke about the game (apparently!).
We were both part of our country’s team at an event in September, and she turned to me when there was drama with the women’s team for advice. We stayed up chatting about it till early in the morning and she felt a lot better about it. We happened to be the only two people left from our country on the final day of the event and we spent all night and day together just hanging out (this was early October). She was still married then, but we went on our first “date” a week after that (mid October), and she decided to get separated the day after (but she had hinted she hadn’t been happy for months before that). The last time we were together romantically was New Year’s Eve/Day. So it was about three months, relatively brief, but very intense!
I’m a little bit paranoid mentioning the specific game as we’re both well-known in our country for playing it! It’s an indoor game anyway! As it happens, I did very well in the tournament (I was undefeated and came joint 3rd), and when we were together at a tournament towards the end of last year I won that event too. In the first two weeks of January I went through a bad patch, and she was supportive of me during it, but afterwards when I got back from playing abroad, she had decided she didn’t want to be with me anymore. I know success is important, and perhaps when things weren’t going well I was coming across to her as lacking in confidence. Maybe this contributed to turning her off? Or that I was playing so much and not able to see her, and I wasn’t even playing well! I’m not sure if either of these things was a significant factor.
Yes I was slightly taken aback by that quip, but there wasn’t really an opportunity for me to ask her about it. Do you think I should wait until this Sunday and bring it up again? I did get the impression in general that she was keeping to herself and didn’t seem to be very happy. She is introverted and was probably also just disappointed with her results. I will be seeing her this Sunday, and then not again until the next coaching session four weeks after that. I’m not sure if I should break no contact online in that period or keep waiting. I guess I’ll have a better idea after Sunday?
Thank you so much again. It helps no end to be able to voice all of these thoughts and receive objective feedback and advice!
Thank you, that sounds like a good plan. I actually just had a bit of an epiphany about the reasons why we broke up last night. I can’t believe I didn’t think of it before, in fact I didn’t even mention it in my first post here. I’d be interested to see what you think if you don’t mind?
As I said, we had agreed not to tell anyone that we were seeing each other, as most of our mutual acquaintances didn’t even know she was separated and we felt it might have an adverse effect on our reputations. The only people who knew I was her boyfriend were her landlord and landlady, and that was only so that I could stay over as a guest. She hadn’t told her parents (they live in another country and would be worried about her if they knew she had moved on so quickly). I had met her brother, but he just thought we were friends.
For my part, I still live at home with my parents as it doesn’t make financial sense for me to move out (price of housing is too high, even though I’m not badly off, and I work near home). I also told my parents we were just friends. They were adamant that I shouldn’t spend time with her when they found out she was married, and that I should give her space when she got separated. She said she needed a friend and I didn’t want to abandon her, so I felt the best thing to do was for me to not tell them the truth at first, and pretend I was spending time with other friends when I was seeing her.
When we got together, she met my father at that competition and I told my parents we were just spending time together as friends, even though I’m sure they knew it was more than that. She knew I was lying about the extent of our relationship to them. If they had known we were in love, I don’t how they would have reacted at the time. They are very traditional Catholics and I tend to avoid going into details about my love life with them, especially at first. So whenever I stayed over with her, I said I was staying at another friend’s house. I explained to her that I didn’t want them to get the wrong impression of her and that I would only tell them the full truth (i.e. that I was staying over with her) when we were officially together (as in being honest with everyone about it), whenever that may happen.
At first she seemed ok with this, but she actually told me when we spoke on New Year’s Eve that she wasn’t comfortable about it, and that it was giving her second thoughts about us being an official couple, as she didn’t think they would approve. I dismissed this and told her that they were my parents, it was my issue to deal with, I know them best, and that I was doing what I felt was right for both of us. I also reassured her that they would be totally supportive of us whenever we decided to tell everyone that we were a proper couple.
She literally said this was the one thing that was bothering her about me, and I didn’t take her seriously. Like I said, this only occurred to me last night. I think it may have been symptomatic of the problems with our relationship in general. I said before that she would message me maybe once a week saying that she was feeling down about herself, feeling hurt over the break-up of her marriage and having second thoughts about everything.
I would listen to her concerns, and I would always send her long, thoughtful responses. I would reassure her that her feelings would pass, that it was perfectly natural to feel that way, that she never needed to explain herself or apologise to me for how she was feeling. That I loved her and cared for her and she never need feel lonely even if I’m not physically beside her. And I would always try to think of some thoughtful gesture to show her how I felt. She invariably cheered up and thanked me for making her feel better.
I felt I was doing what was best for her and supporting her as best I could. However, the concerns and worries she had were totally legitimate, and I’m wondering now if I just belittled them and minimised their importance in an effort to make her feel better. Dismissing her genuine feeling of unease about me lying to my parents about us is a clear example of this, and I’m thinking that this may have been the main reason why she wanted to break up. I told her not to worry about this and that it was my problem and not hers. That is how I felt and I thought she accepted this. Looking at it from her point of view and from her emotional situation, I can understand now why she would feel upset by this and doubtful of our future together.
The fact that she even told me straight out this was something that didn’t sit well with her really makes me feel like I handled the situation very badly. I should have taken her seriously and tried harder to see it from her point of view. It would also explain why she suddenly became so despondent on Christmas, as I had told her the reason why I couldn’t come to see her was that my mother wanted me and the family to be home together on Christmas Eve/Day. Again this was something I thought was reasonable, but she said she felt like a “nuisance” in my life, and when I sent her a long message to assuage her fears and tell her how highly my family thought of her, she ignored it, when she would normally have thanked me for listening and cheering her up.
I always felt I listened to her and had her best interests at heart. Now I’m thinking that I did listen, but I didn’t really hear what she was saying. If this is the main reason I lost her, I think I could repair the damage, if I can let her know in the right way that I understand and can do everything so much better if we do reconcile. Maybe there were lots of other reasons too, but the fact that she mentioned this as being the one thing she didn’t like about me makes me feel like I really should have taken her opinion on board and done something about it, instead of sticking to my guns and saying her concerns were unfounded.
I appreciate this is another long message, and you have been so helpful already, but I really would appreciate your opinion on this! Thank you again!
Not telling your parents about her is deceitful and it’s always best to be truthful. The same applies to her (in spite of the concern about reputations). In the long run, only happiness and truth matters.
Ask her if she wants you to tell your parents or just do it. She should also be willing to tell her family and friends.
Regarding Christmas; doesn’t she have family nearby that she could spend holidays with? Yet if you knew she would be absolutely alone, you could have invited her to your family’s place (as a friend) like you told them she was..
What country are you two in?? I can’t think of any that would be so restrictive of the personal lives of it’s citizens.
Thank you, I agree. I have spoken to other parents who have children (adults!) around my age and they say that it’s normal for them to not tell them the full truth at first until things sort of settle and work out for them. I guess the way I handled it was understandable considering how they were against me seeing her in the first place, but I do feel like honesty is the best policy.
I’ve never felt comfortable discussing my sex life with my parents, when discussing relationships with them I tend to leave that part out. They were brought up to believe in saving yourself for marriage and I always felt they would have liked me to believe the same. I don’t sleep around and pursuing sex has never been an issue for me, I don’t bother unless I have strong feelings for the girl that I’m with and I’d never pressure her. Likewise this girl has told me she would only sleep with someone she is in love with.
Perhaps it would be best for me to clear the air with my parents and explain to them the extent of our relationship? I have told them that we were in love and have been honest with them about everything except staying over with her and sleeping with her. Do you think I should be totally open about that too?
Christmas was a very unfortunate situation. She has a brother who lives a couple of miles away from me, and she lives over the other side of the city herself (a good hour and half away on public transport). She has no other family here and also no close friends. She moved here when she got married, didn’t know anyone, and lived in a different city when she was married. I was her closest friend as well as everything else, she shared things with me she had never even told her husband when they were together. She also catches up with her husband every couple of weeks, and goes out with her colleagues from work whenever something is organised for them.
She had asked me to meet her and her brother on Christmas Eve as that’s when they usually celebrate Christmas properly. She also asked me that, if I wasn’t able to make it, I could come to her brother’s on Christmas Day instead. I thought at first I would be able to do one or the other, and told her as much, but due to family commitments, I simply couldn’t. Her brother was working on Christmas Day and also decided that he was going to visit friends of his after work, with the result that she would be stuck in his house alone all day on Christmas Day with no means of getting back to her house (no public transport on Christmas Day!). He only told her this on Christmas Eve, around the same time I told her I wouldn’t be able to see her either. So she understandably felt we both let her down.
She forgave her brother because she said “that’s just what he’s like”, but I felt very guilty even though she said she didn’t blame me. She had been asked to spend Christmas with her husband’s family, but understandably felt that would be awkward. Her landlord and landlady also asked her over for Christmas dinner, she was delighted to be asked and I encouraged her to go, but she knew all of their family would be there and felt it would be awkward. It wasn’t my place to ask her over as Christmas dinner in my house has always been family only, and she said she wouldn’t have come because it was too early for her to meet my whole family (she had met my dad only incidentally because he was at a competition with me). Her colleague from work had asked her over for Christmas dinner, his girlfriend encouraged him and said she shouldn’t be alone on Christmas, even though his girlfriend herself was away and wasn’t going to be joining them.
She eventually decided to leave her brother’s house early in the morning, and walk the three hours back to her house, so that she could join her colleague from work who lives near there. I think I wrote about what happened then in my first post.
I know she wants to go back to college and study something new. She feels this would be the best way for her to make new friends (she doesn’t like making small talk and prefers to connect with people that she has things in common with!). She also wants to learn to drive and take trips around the country taking photos. She also told me that if I hadn’t been there when she got separated, she probably would have moved country and gone back to live with her parents.
We live in Ireland. We’ve legalised gay marriage and abortion recently, but were heavily under the influence of the Catholic Church for centuries. There is a divorce referendum coming down the tracks, but probably not in time to help her!
Thank you again for listening and for giving me advice, I really appreciate it.
You should be honest with your parents about staying over with her, but you don’t need to tell them you’re sleeping with her.
I understand most couples don’t introduce each other to their parents until they have a stable loving relationship..
“There is a divorce referendum coming down the tracks, but probably not in time to help her!” What does not in time to help her mean??
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