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Hi, everyone. My problem is not opportunity or chances, but, rather, courage. I had an abusive childhood where I was told repeatedly that my abuser was a good person and I was to blame for the abuse. This left me terrified of intimacy and love. I’ve had two serious relationships with men who I wasn’t in love with (safer, since they couldn’t hurt me) and a series of dinners with other men; it is very difficult for me to be physically intimate with anyone. I have been told repeatedly that I am very attractive but I don’t give off sexual signals, therefore men hit on me all the time but rarely get the courage to make physical advances. I’m 35 years old, but my sexual experience is very limited – I’ve had two partners; my ex (who I met when I was 27) and a one night stand a year ago.
Five years ago, I met a man and, unheard of for me, I fell for him instantly. Shockingly, he fell for me, too. He was very intense – called constantly, wanted to see me every day, gave me many sweet gifts, introduced me to family immediately, cooked me dinner, hinted at a future with me. We would stay up talking until 5 in the morning. We shared some very romantic moments, and he said some of the most beautiful things to me that I’ve ever heard in my life, namely that when he first saw me he was struck, that he knew immediately I would understand him and he could understand me, that we were the same; that he liked spending time with me because I made him see old things in a new way; that I had a beautiful mind. I had never met anyone like him; incredibly handsome yet humble and generous and sensitive. He made me want to become more generous, too. I couldn’t believe someone like him would want to be with someone like me.
As thrilled as I was to have met him, the trouble started quickly; I had never fallen so deeply or so quickly for anyone, and that he was so into me, too, was terrifying. I gave mixed signals – I rejected invites, I pretended not to catch the deeper meanings of his sweet words, and when he tried to talk to me to find out why I was behaving this way, I wouldn’t tell him. And, as usual, I was physically cold: he never even got the courage to try to kiss me (although he did manage to get up the nerve to give me a few sensual back rubs). I shut down his two shy hints that he was ready to be intimate. After two months of this (and after behaving coldly to him at his sister’s birthday party; ignoring him and telling his friends that he and I were just buddies), he stopped calling me. At the time, I wasn’t taking responsibility for my actions and I was crushed; I couldn’t figure out why he was behaving this way when he had seemed so crazy about me. Believing I had been wronged, I went into NC.
About 6 weeks later, he contacted me. He tried several times to reopen the lines of communication between us – asking me to meet him (I declined), offering to paint my apartment in exchange for a home-cooked meal (I ignored the offer, instead inviting him to my birthday party and sending him and invitation where only men were listed as guests). I was so hurt from him cutting me off 6 weeks before and still terrified of my feelings for him. I thought the fact that he hadn’t kissed me meant he had only been playing with me. This went on for a few more months, and then he disappeared completely; wouldn’t answer my calls or my texts. I met many other men but couldn’t get him out of my mind. One day I called him and told him how much I had appreciated our friendship and that it would be nice to have a coffee together now and then. He agreed and said we could meet soon. But when I called to follow up, he wouldn’t pick up the phone. I didn’t see or hear from him for six months. Then I learned that he was in a serious relationship. I was devastated.
For the next year, we ignored each other in public – it was horrible. I made new friends, I threw myself into my work, I tried dating other men (who ALSO didn’t make physical advances!!), I tried to work on myself and become a better person but nothing worked; I couldn’t forget the time we had spent together and every time I saw him, I was back at square one. But he seemed to be content with his girlfriend and I took this to mean that he had never cared about me so of course I wasn’t going to interfere. In that year, I realized how much I had been to blame for the course of events and I knew I would never be able to move on unless I told him how much he had meant to me and wish him well with his life. So I began waving to him at events; to my surprise, he waved back. One evening, we ran into each other at a concert and to my utter shock, we ended up talking alone together until three in the morning; laughing, teasing each other, bringing up our old inside jokes. He never mentioned his girlfriend. This set in motion a series of similar encounters: we’d see each other at a bar or concert and end up talking for hours. Sometimes he gave me a ride home, sometimes our conversations became so intense that we couldn’t speak; just stared at each other. He never mentioned the girlfriend. And I still couldn’t tell him that I was in love with him and always had been. Once, he invited me to see the music school he had opened and I went, but by that time, guilt and terror were starting to get the best of me again – was he just using me for an ego boost? Could he really still have feelings for me? Was I morally corrupt, wanting to spend time with another woman’s man? I began to send out mixed signals again – he’d bring up something from the past (such as a particularly romantic day we spent together) and I’d react minimally. He’d try to touch me flirtatiously and I would pretend not to notice. He’d offer to buy me a drink and I’d decline, saying I had someone to meet. Once he said he wanted my help with something but I changed the subject. I was just too afraid to tell him everything I wanted to say and besides, he was still with his girlfriend! We’d have these encounters and then I’d see them together the next day, which was heartbreaking. For the sake of my sanity, I decided to distance myself – I stopped going to events, I even started casually seeing a coworker and slept with him (the aforementioned one night stand, after 4 years of abstinence).
Over the next few months, our interactions became increasingly hot and cold. I’d feel him watching at me at events, but then when I’d turn he’d look away. He often pretended not to see me in a crowd. As always, he steered clear of me when I was with other men and sometimes I even caught him glaring at me when I was with a particular male friend. But then he’d spontaneously buy me a drink, blow me a kiss, and then act nervous when I tried to engage him in conversation. He’d get lost in the middle of a sentence, smile warmly, then pinch my cheek and excuse himself. I’d greet him warmly and he’d answer coldly. Or he’d greet me warmly (rubbing my arms and telling me I looked great) and I’d greet him coldly. It was ridiculous and went on for months. And then I got a shock: I learned he had split with his girlfriend! I wanted to make a move but I wasn’t sure how he felt about me, so I signed up for piano lessons at his music school, thinking that I would get an opportunity to interact with him regularly in a place where there was no alcohol and none of our friends around to distract us. But to my surprise and chagrin, he was never there when I was. Two months of piano lessons and I felt like an idiot. But then, one night…. there he was. He was clearly glad to see me and we ended up talking together for hours. He was shy and nervous at first but gradually we both melted and became giddy. Just like when we were dating, he threw out trick after trick to get me to stay talking with him. When I eventually said I had to go (I had a meeting) I could tell he was disappointed. When I saw him the next week, he was, again, clearly glad to see me and we spent three hours together, but he was avoiding emotional intimacy; when I tried to bring up something from the past or something personal, he would respond briefly and then change the topic to something like the wheat industry.
After that, our interactions became hot and cold again. He was often not at school and when he was, he was always nice to me but very guarded. I was disappointed and resolved to move on for the millionth time…. once again, I began thinking that the only way I could move on was to tell him everything and when he rejected me, to wish him well and finally get on with my life. He’s 40 and I’m 35 now… how much longer can this go on?
And then, three weeks ago, I ran into him at a concert where we had another long, delightful encounter. This time it was different, though – I brought up the day we first met and his reaction was intense: he stared at me and had difficulty choosing his words. He finally said, “There was an air about you….” I hinted at the fact that when we were dating, he had misunderstood my actions. He said, “I think you were clear,” and I said, “No. I didn’t say the things I wanted to say.” We weren’t alone; one of his friends was with us so I didn’t go further than that, but the next time I saw him at school, he greeted me enthusiastically. He said he had a job opportunity for me and I should come talk to him after my lesson. When I did, the project (a translation job for a documentary on a local island chain) took over an hour to explain because we kept getting sidetracked to joke with each other and catch up on the past few months. He told me he wanted to show me his art projects. He said we’d go to the islands this summer. He kept hovering around me, swatting the gnats that were in the room and brushing the hair off my shoulders: “One was about to bite you.” We continued talking for another couple of hours – he was affectionate and became physically flirtier (unusual for him) but our conversation was interrupted by his cockblocking coworkers.
I was on top of the world; our interaction had felt so different, as though a new trajectory was being launched. It suddenly felt as though I would really be able to tell him everything and maybe, just maybe, he wouldn’t reject me. I couldn’t wait to see him again.
And then, a week later, I saw that his ex (?) girlfriend had changed her profile photo to a shot of her and him, with him visible only from the waist down. A few days after that, I saw them together in her car. What the hell? Are they back together?
If they are back together, what were our encounters about? What do I mean to him? Can I still tell him everything – even if it’s just to help me move on?
If I can… what do I say?
That is a really rough situation to be in, I feel for you. It sounds like the two of you either need to be together, or completely stay away from each other. The back and forth all the time and the hot/cold behavior is only harming to the two of you.
The first thing that stood out to me in your post is that it seems you haven’t gotten over what happened to you early on in life. I think before you can truly have intimacy both emotionally and physically, you are going to have to work through what happened to you fully. Have you seen a therapist? If you have, was it a good one you were comfortable with who was active in your recovery? If not, I would highly suggest going and seeing someone very soon because I don’t think the problems you are experiencing are going to go away on their own.
It definitely isn’t your fault what is happening with this guy, but he isn’t a mind reader and can’t just suddenly know what you are trying to say if you don’t tell him. How is he supposed to know you want him to make the first move even if you aren’t putting out signs that it is ok? In our society, men are increasingly afraid to do that because for most women, if they haven’t given out any flirty signs, if they make a move with her it’s not ok. Maybe he truly doesn’t understand you want him that way and therefore is thinking you are playing games with him? That is what I would think if I were in his shoes.
It seems like you are in a bit of a stalemate with each other right now and the only way out of it is by communicating. He may be back with this girl, but you will probably not know unless you ask. If he is, I would take a guess and say it is because, though he has feelings for you, you haven’t been clear in your intentions and he doesn’t want to keep playing games with you when he has someone willing right there. Sad to say, but men need physical stuff to stay with someone happily and he may think that you aren’t truly interested in him that way.
I’m sorry you are going through all of this and I hope I don’t sound like I am blaming you or anything. I just think the best thing you could possibly do is outright communicate everything, *everything*, you have been holding back from him so that he understands. If you can’t do that, then maybe you need to talk it out with someone who can help you heal from your past so you can be open and have a successful relationship with him. Even if he is with this other girl and you two don’t end up together, I think you would feel a lot better being able to express what you have been holding back to him and then use that as a lesson with the next guy.
Good luck, keep us posted on what you decide to do!
Dear @knitterz, thank you for your response. I am in therapy and have been ever since I first discovered he was with his girlfriend 3 years ago (yes, you are right – these are serious problems). My therapist is very kind and supportive. I’ve made a lot of progress with her in regards to trusting my instincts and taking responsibility for my actions towards him but, of course, I still have so much work to do at being open and brave and consistent. It’s like something paralyzes me… I get into my head… I always think, “I’m unwanted. I am being pathetic.”
But… I saw him today! There was band practice at music school. I had been to band practice once before and he stayed holed up in his office, earphones on, shutting out the world. But this time as soon as he saw me he came over to me grinning and making fun of me – calling me by a new nickname he’d come up with a few weeks ago, pretending to introduce himself and holding out his hand to shake. To my surprise, the handshake lasted a rather long time – it became more that we were holding hands than shaking. Throughout the band practice, he came in and out of the rehearsal room, sat next to me and teased me. I was very nervous because it was the first time he had ever heard me play the piano but I tried to hold it together. After band practice, he asked if I had a specific computer program to use with my keyboard – “come with me, I’ll show you”; brought me into the rehearsal room where we were alone – and said if I didn’t have a keyboard, he would give me one that he has. We were joking around a lot and went outside to sit with the other musicians. We were all chatting, but I started to feel pathetic, as though I were hanging around without a reason, so I said I had to get going: “I’ll see you on Monday, right?” He said, “….. possibly….” And then I left.
As soon as I got into my car I thought, “idiot! Why did you leave? He clearly had no problem with you being there!” But it was too late. Again, Rome wasn’t built in a day.
I feel much better – this week has been torture – but, of course, I’m still not sure what’s going on with his ex (it wasn’t the right situation to ask). At least it doesn’t appear that he’s going to cut me off like last time. I wish I could get him ALONE. Not at school. Not at a concert with our friends around. But we don’t have a phone or Facebook relationship; when I discovered he was with his ex the first time, I deleted his number immediately and have never had the balls to ask for it again. He isn’t on Facebook. He doesn’t text or call me. Over the winter, I tried hinting that I’d like to see him outside of school but he didn’t bite. I want to tell him everything! Everything!
I wish I hadn’t left.
Dear penelope, this was painful for me to read. I also feel for you and I’m sorry if I will say anything that might make you feel bad about yourself.
It’s clear you hurt him a lot in the past. What really stood out to me was this:
I hinted at the fact that when we were dating, he had misunderstood my actions. He said, “I think you were clear,”
Girl! Right then and there was the time for you to take a deep breath, put your big girl pants on, and say this is it. Tell him please let’s go outside or invite him for a coffee and let him know. I think he really likes you, you two really connect. And as the saying says, “If you keep doing what you have been doing, you will get what you have always been getting”.
Slowly but surely you need to start building this up. He doesn’t know you don’t have his number, so you never call or message him so it only adds to what he said in the quote I posted above, he thinks you just are not interested! He once did everything for you to turn this into a romantic relationship. You weren’t capable of letting him in and I DON’T blame you for that as I have that problem too but in a much milder form. So now he thinks you only see him as a friend, nothing more.
I was also going to suggest a therapist, and, just like me, you shoud have started much earlier. I’m having my first consultation in a week. I should have gone years ago. But, maybe, you should try and search for someone that is a specialist in these kinds of issues, or try someone different, or a life coach. Sure understanding and kindness are good, but in my opinion, you need to learn to be comfortable with taking life by its horns and run it yourself. You need t learn not to be afraid of being hurt, not to be afraid or rejection. There is another quote: In 10 years you will regret more the things you didn’t do than the ones you did. And I know I’ll be raising your anxiety levels right now (remember I have similar issues), but if you don’t start taking care of these kinds of issues and actually taking steps, at the end of your life you will regret everything. We will die one day and what counts is what we did while we could and not what we regret after when nothing can be done. The only time that truly exists is this moment. The past doesn’t exist anymore, the future doesn’t exist yet.
Now I am not saying just go out NOW and tell him everything. It won’t make him feel safe either and it could make him distance a bit. Maybe you could start by saying you changed your phone or that you lost your sim card (it can happen), or some other excuse, but that you were afraid of telling him or embarrassed of asking, and ask for his number. Maybe even tell him that it’s for the purpose of scheduling a coffee sometime or if you can get another better excuse do so. If you want I can try to help you think of something 🙂
One important thing in your case, is, as said before, you have to live in the moment, in order not to react like you did the other day when you just went away. If I understood right that was for two reasons:
1. Insecurity
2. Precisely because you are not really thinking in the moment, you are letting your insecurities cloud your vision.Another quote to remember here: You are NOT your mind. You are not what your mind tells you you are.
One thing that really resonated with me was when I listed to the first chapter or two of the audio book: Wherever you go there you are by Jon Kabat Zin. It’s on youtube, you can listen to it there. It really helped me cause I, too, was reacting unconsciously, being insecure, pushing my ex away, based mostly on things that happened in my past.
The book is about meditation, but the first chapters are about being in the moment and why it’s important. Never the less, I would also suggest you to meditate 🙂 It will train your brain to be in the moment, and to just BE. BE with your mind clear, be who you truly are, with no influence of the insecurities in your mind which is troubled by issues in the past.Once you understand the base of your insecurities that make you jump out when you should stay put, and make you be afraid to show your feelings to a person that is there for you and wants a love relationship with you, you will learn to control those impulses better. You will know how to tell your mind to shut up, and that it’s you who runs this show, and you will take it wherever YOU want.
Now, about his ex girlfriend. This is a bit trickier. You are a very observing person, I’m sure you will get a feel of what is going on. But I also think the way he acted towards you before even though he was with her at the time is very telling. I think it’s you he feels good with. It’s you he would like to be with. But you “don’t” want to – this is what is on his mind.
So I know Rome isn’t built in a day, I agree. But I am sure you CAN do this 🙂 You seem like a great person, and you DESERVE TO BE HAPPY. YOU ARE MORE THAN ENOUGH.
I am happy to help so have no problems in asking more questions, I will make sure to check this post regularly
Another thing. I don’t know if you believe in destiny. I don’t know even if I believe either. But if you think it just might exist, I think it’s pretty obvious it’s playing its cards here. I mean, for 5 years, you barely communicated thru phone or anything, never scheduled anything, but still you just kept running into each other. If I see it thru the destiny’s goggles, it’s clear that this is, so go for it 🙂
dear @kaila,
thank you so much for your thoughtful response. don’t worry about making me feel bad about myself – my therapist has been saying the same things for years now and I completely agree with the both of you.
One of my biggest problems is gauging how he actually feels about me. I can never tell for sure because sometimes he seems SO open and warm and even flirtatious and other times I get a wall. i can’t tell if he just finds me physically attractive because key fits lock, or if he still has feelings for me. Nine times out of ten, he won’t come near me when I’m with other men, and in the past he has reacted crankily when he sees me talking to them (a couple of years ago, he even threw a tantrum; I was so surprised. It was the first and last time i’ve ever heard him raise his voice). I can never tell if he’s acting cold because of something I did or something that has nothing to do with me. I’m extremely sensitive to his moods and expressions; if I feel any sort of hesitation on his part, I tend to abandon all my plans and run.
Like tonight. It wasn’t a negative encounter but it wasn’t one of our best. I had planned to do three things tonight: 1) follow up on something he’d offered to do for me last Saturday 2) find out for sure if he was back with his girlfriend 3) give him a compliment on his looks. I only did one of those things. He was very tired and stressed out, hadn’t eaten all day. As I approached the school I saw that he gave me the up-and-down with his eyes but he greeted me only professionally: “Good evening.” I wasn’t satisfied with our greeting; about ten minutes into my lesson I took a trip to the bathroom and as I was going back to the lesson, I took the opportunity to try to ask him about that thing he had brought up a couple of days ago (lending me a keyboard). He was polite but professional – nothing like two days ago when he was clowning around so much and seeking attention. I asked him if he was okay and he said he was tired, that he had been doing construction work all morning on the school. He got up and led me into the construction area and showed me what they were doing. I tried to tease him and he eventually cracked a few smiles. We chatted for about ten minutes; he wasn’t trying to get rid of me, we were enjoying ourselves, but my piano teacher came looking for me and so I went back to my lesson. He was still there when I came back out at the end, and I could see that he was pinching the bridge of his nose and looking very stressed and in pain; I wanted so much to go over and hug him but with his coworkers around, I settled for offering him an aspirin from my purse. He said very gently, “No, no, thank you, you’re so kind… but I think this will just go away when I eat something.” I loftily said, “I haven’t eaten anything either… I’ve been at work all day.” But he didn’t bite. So I left. And as I was pulling out of the lot, I saw that he was getting into his car, too. He could have walked out with me. Or said, “Let’s get something to eat together.” But he didn’t.
I never know where his head is. I never know if I’ve done something wrong, or if it has nothing to do with me, if I’m just seeing things that aren’t there. How the hell am I going to tell him everything if I never get him really alone without the fear of his coworkers walking in at any time?
As I mentioned before I think he wanted something really serious with you but the way you acted towards him made him believe you didn’t want the same thing and given that you never said otherwise and never gave signs of anyting else, he just keeps thinking that is the reality: that you don’t want anything.
So sometimes he wants to be close to you and flirt. Other times maybe he gets a reality check and remembers he already tried something and you didn’t correspond to him. So he backs down.
Men, as I have heard, don’t pick up on those things. And after everything, it’s even harder. How could he? In my opinion he will never bite on anything unless you tell him the truth of why you really pushed him away or start making invites yourself. Today wasn’t probably a good day, but next time just tell ask if he wants to grab something to eat. Simple. And oh, that is also how you will be able to be alone with him 🙂
Now, he might also be back with his girlfriend and for that reason he is backing off. Reason I say this is that you mentioned he could have walked out with you and didn’t. But also he could have gotten a call or think he had something to do and didn’t and got out shortly after but didn’t catch you
I know what he wanted from me then, but I really don’t know what he wants from me NOW. There are times when it seems so clear that he still has feelings for me (if he didn’t, he would be totally neutral with me, but there’s all this hot and cold nonsense!! And his reaction when i’m with other men…plus, the fact that he was so taken by me at one time… if he were totally over it, wouldn’t he be completely neutral?). Those times when we’re together and it feels so intense, or like no time has passed… that night a few weeks ago when I brought up the day we met, he stared at me and it was like we were the only two people in the room…
And then there are other times when I think: he is only physically attracted to me and I’m an ego boost for him. If he’s with HER then it means he has no romantic feelings for me anymore. He doesn’t care about me – that’s why he acts cold. He’s totally uninterested in me and he can feel that I’m in love with him and it’s freaking him out.
But… he can’t just want to sleep with me. Our relationship was never about that; he never even got up the nerve to kiss me. And anyone who knows me knows I’m not a good time gal.
So what the hell? I don’t know what he picks up from ME. I know I sometimes give mixed signals, I know I’m not overtly flirtatious. We have a lot of friends in common, but I don’t know who I can trust – some of them are friends with his ex and others (the male others) have ulterior motives. I know in the past one of them (a drunken piece of crap) told him, “That girl is crazy about you.” I know this because that same piece of crap came up to me one night at a bar and said, “I know you’re in love with F. It’s so obvious. I told him so. He said, ‘she’s intelligent and funny but that’s it.’ So you’re in love with F but he doesn’t care about you. It’s just a dream!” This was a while ago… he was still with his girlfriend at the time. But I don’t know what people tell him. I don’t know what he picks up from me. I just don’t know.
He doesn’t know you have feelings for him. Guys are not mind readers! If he can’t be with you, did you expect him to be alone for life? No. So being with someone else doesn’t mean he has no feelings for you anymore.
Do you know anything else about his relationship status?
No, I don’t have any more insight into his having potentially gotten back with his ex. I know that they were serious for at least a year, invested in each other’s families. That’s very painful for me.
Monday night I was resolved to ask him, “So how’s life? Work? Friends? Family? Girlfriend?” but when I saw that he was behaving only professionally with me, I chickened out.
I realized last night that for the past month (ever since I brought up the past and he was so shocked/moved) our goodbyes have been weird. Ever since we connected again 2 years ago, our goodbyes had been friendly or had featured that split second of hesitation. But in the past month, no matter how warm and flirtatious our interactions might have been, his goodbyes to me are cold. Even that night when he was flirting so heavily with me… as soon as it was time to say good night, he practically ignored me. Monday night, too. I wonder if there’s anything to that?
But I need a goal. So I’ve chosen these three:
1) find out if he’s really back together with her
2) touch him/tell him something that takes our interaction in a different direction
3) and, finally, tell him I love him.On number 2: maybe he doesn’t know how I feel. I’m not overtly flirtatious in the traditional sense and of course our history is so layered and my usual fear of physical intimacy. When he and I were dating, it was lovely that he used to tell me that I was intelligent and had a beautiful mind, but I was waiting for the moment when he would take me in his arms, say, “you’re beautiful,” and give me a kiss that made me glad I’d been born a woman.
I dress up for him (not that he’d know it), I’m feminine, and widely perceived in our town as being attractive (and he still finds me physically attractive as well) but I never touch him. I gave him some compliments on his looks but that was 5 years ago, and never since. Maybe I need to do something that will make him look at me in a different way?
what do you think?
I think its good you want to make this effort and fight your fears 🙂
You really need to know if he is with her first before trying anything. About telling him you love him, only after you get back to going on dates. Cause if you just say you love him all of a sudden im pretty sure he will shut you off. About being more flirtatious and touching, yes its a great idea, but like I said I think only after you are sure he isnt back with her in a serious relationship.
And about him being colder to you when saying goodbye, you bringing up the past might have brought up feelings in him both good and bad, might have reminded him of the hurt he went thru, and maybe he is just all happy to be with you and wants to be with you more and then when saying goodbye he might feel a bit rejected at times (unconciosly), or wishing you would stay longer and that more happened. Can’t tell you for sure.
Definitely try to get closer, and start opening up slowly. I think the best case scenario would be you two to start going out again, you start opening up, tell him why you did what you did, tell him about your issues and tell him how you really feel and that you would like to see things evolve to something serious. Of course, over the course of a few weeks at least. Or heck, if you two ever meet at a bar get both of you tipsy and have a heart to heart talk, its been so long already :/
About him never kissing you (and I remember you mention other people never made much advancements) you say a lot with your body language. If you are afraid of intimacy, you are no comfortable or open to it, and it shows. Maybe read on body language and it might be clarifying to you? If you always sit back, arms crossed, don’t look people in the eyes, don’t smile or laugh much, cover yourself up a lot etc etc, it sends that message, not the one of someone open to intimacy 🙂
Kaila, I like your optimism – “the best case scenario would be for you two to start going out again.” If only!!! I have noticed one thing (and this has always been true, even when we were dating): he likes to lead. He doesn’t like it when I hint at things (or at least he doesn’t seem to register that I’m hinting). He likes to be the one to suggest things; I’m supposed to be the one who accepts. We can’t seem to get our timing right. Sometimes he suggest things or makes references to the past and I don’t get it until later. Maybe the same thing happens with him? Sometimes I think we’re both terrified of each other.
I need to find out what’s happening with him and his ex (?); I can’t base my actions on assumptions. It’s probably what it looks like, but I need to find out for sure. I wonder how I can do this? In the past, i’ve never asked about her because it was too painful and he never mentioned her. What will I say? “How’s life? Family? Work? Girlfriend? Health?”
Re: body language. I smile and joke around a lot – sometimes men read this as flirtatious and at least once a month I have to disappoint someone. But I’ve never been a flirt in the sense that I touch men or say saucy things. The coworker I had the one night stand with with took 3 months to hit on me! I asked him later, “Why did it take you so long?” And he replied: “Because you don’t give off symptoms of being easy. I didn’t want to risk losing you as a friend.” This is exactly what another man said to me a year before (I asked him why he’d never hit on me… we met on match.com for pete’s sake). I really thought I’d been doing better! Ever since we came back into each other’s lives two years ago, I’ve tried so hard to let him know how much I enjoy spending time with him. I’ve told him I’m proud of him often and the work he does. A few weeks ago, I asked him, “Is there anything you can’t do? I always liked that about you – that you’re so good at everything.” I’ve tried so hard the past 6 months to be consistent and show him that I just want to be open and positive but he still hasn’t asked me out. Unless you count the other week when he said, “we’ll go to the islands” and “i’ll show you my art.”
My therapist told me that I should just try to actually flirt with him even if I don’t know for sure what’s happening. She said, “If you get too close he’ll tell you.” But I don’t know…
1st what it seems to me is that you never gave him any chance but to initiate things and “take the lead”. what I read frm you is that you never really do any advances in relationships. You say he didnt kiss you. You say no one makes sexual advances. Did you do any? Did you smile at him in a romantic moment and stared deep in his eyes, got closer so that he would really get it and kiss you for example?
2nd after the HUGE rejection you gave him you can’t expect him to do any advances. You broke his heart. He gave you everything at one point and you didn’t want it, why would he do anything at all?
I don’t think you get it. If he tried and you pushed him away, why do you think he has to pick on anything you say? As I said in the first or second post on your thread, men don’t pick up things easily.
If you keep waiting for him to do something, to make advances, to pick up on unpickable things, etc, you will never go anywhere. YOU must take control of your life. Cause if not look wwhere it has taken you? If you keep doing the same thing, you get the same results, there is no other way to go about it.
I know its hard for you, but its been 5 years, two years since you have been trying to get close but you dont really go the extra step and take this by the horns and make it go where YOU want to go. Stop thinking he has to do the advancements. I don’t know where you took that idea from? :/
About his girlfriend, its the same thing. I dont know the right way to do it, but if it means you need to ask him directly how are his “heart matters” or love life, or if he is seeing someone, then do so. Ask him to see his art. Ask him for some lessons and to teach you at your house or a quiet place. Ask for help with piano if he can help you and then go for a drink. If he seems open or in a bad mood, say you are having a hard day yourself and aks if he wants to have a drink. Just get any excuse to go on a date like thing, have a few drinks, turn it into something fun, then ask him x)
Dear Kaila,
Thank you for being so thoughtful with your responses. Your words: “I don’t think you get it” and “I don’t know where you got the idea [he has to make moves]” have really resonated with me. You made me realize that I need to stop acting like I’m some girl he met just a few weeks ago and take responsibility for my actions in the past. I made up my mind that our next interaction would be focused on talking about the past.So…. big news!
Last night I saw him at school. To make a long story short: we spent 6 hours together. A LOT of mixed signals from him, but I really tried to stick to the program: I tried to find out about his relationship, I tried to lay the groundwork for talking seriously about the past, and I told him I love him. I think I did anyway! Not in words but I’m sure he understood….
So let me back up. First, when I saw him at school we were joking around as usual and at one point while I was talking to someone (someone from my country; we were speaking in our native language) I noticed him looking at me with this pure, lovely expression – like admiration or affection. After my lesson, we talked for 3 hours at the school and it was a parade of mixed signals.
Negative signals:
-at points, it seemed like he was stopping just short of emotional intimacy. Like he was holding back.
-seemingly brushed off my attempts to allude to the time we dated
-said some decidedly unsexy things (talked about his body functions… apparently, eating garlic gives him extremely stinky poop. Thank god he told me; I’ve always wanted to know!)
-the big thing, which I’ll save for the lastPositive signals:
-when he let his guard down we joked and laughed like idiots. Main topics: the things he’s invented, the things I will buy him when I sell my novel and make millions, ways we can become rich together
-at one point, I said his name in a scolding way and he lost it. he cracked up and reached out to pinch my calf. For once, I didn’t miss a beat. I retaliated by reaching out and nudging his thigh.
-I told him he looks good in a beard!
-as school was closing, HE INVITED ME TO COME EAT SOMETHING WITH HIM!!!!!!! He tried to be casual about it. Just like last week, I asked him if he’d eaten and I said I hadn’t eaten either. But unlike last week, he said, “I’ll be going to X pub. If you want you can come with me.” I thought I was hearing things!!!! I said, “Who…. me?” He said, “Yeah. Anyway, I’m going there. if you want you can come.” I said, “Well, of course. How lovely.”You know that scene in Love Actually where Laura Linney gets kissed by Rodrigo Santoro and she says, “I need a minute” and hides behind a wall and starts jumping up and down and squealing? I absolutely did that!!!!!!!!!!
So we went to the pub where we went for our first date! (a coincidence; I think it was the only one open at the hour and he knows the owner). I was overwhelmed being there with him… I hadn’t been there since our last date, nearly 5 years ago. He introduced me to everyone there as though I were important. He told me about some event that is happening there tonight. Over dinner he was much more relaxed; we were being silly and maybe even flirting at one point. When the pub closed, we stayed outside on the porch talking until 3 in the morning! But, just like earlier in the evening, he deflected my attempts to talk about the time we dated. I said, “I haven’t been here since I came with you” – nothing. We were talking about movies and he asked if I had any recommendations for him. I gave him a few and asked if he had some for me. I then asked if he had a copy of the movie he had recommended. He said, no. I said, “Well, you’d better not lend me any movies… I still have tons of yours that you lent me years ago.” He tried to ignore that, too, but I said, “Did you hear what I said, F?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “How come you never asked me for those movies back?” He hesitated and said, smiling, “when it’s been 10 years I’ll have you sign a contract.” and then he changed the subject.
The really important part of the evening came from that conversation. We started talking about fears, then about fear versus instinct. I asked him if he trusted his instincts. He said he did, and asked if I trusted mine… if I’m afraid of myself. I told him that my biggest terrors have always been rejection and love. It was so hard to say the word “love” in front of him. I told him that both of my ex partners had been men who I wasn’t crazy about, because there was less chance of being hurt, but I’ve never been with someone I was really nuts about because in those few cases, I haven’t had the courage to tell them how I felt and instead I suffered. He said, grinning, “well, that’s what you can write about for your next book. A writer has to suffer…” Then he said, “it’s important to say these things out loud. The times that I behaved properly and said the things I needed to, I felt so much better after. The times I didn’t I ended up devastated and it took me months to get over it.” I said, “Years….”
Then his voice changed. He said, “You don’t breathe. You have breathing problems. I’ve always noticed that about you. You talk and you talk and you forget to breathe. You are very anxious.”
He said that to me on our first date!! And that’s what I said. I said, “You said that to me on our first date.” and then I said, “Maybe it’s your fault. It’s your effect on me. You take my breath away!” and he laughed.
I said, “Many years ago you told me that I am not generous. That you are capable of giving up to a 10 and I am only capable of giving up to a 6. Do you remember?” He said he didn’t. I said, “We were in my kitchen… you don’t remember?” He said no. So I continued: “It made me think so much. Because you were right. And in the intervening years I have tried so hard to change. Because I am afraid of the life not lived. The emotions not felt. The hugs not given.” The air was starting to get a bit intense so I pulled back a bit: “…. but not the food not eaten! I eat everything….” And we laughed.
It was three in the morning and he was yawning. He said, “okay, to bed” and he walked me to my car. And as we got to my car he started to put his arm around me to hug me goodnight (unusual for him) and I did it – I grabbed him. I wrapped him in my arms and I hugged him tight. I don’t know how long I held him against me but at one point I realized that he wasn’t returning the hug with the same level of intensity so I thought, “oh god. He doesn’t want this” and I let go. When I let go, he laughed and said, “Breathe! Breathe! Relax!” I thanked him for treating me to dinner. I thanked him for inviting me to eat with him. And I said I’d see him Saturday for the next band practice. He said, “Yes, it’s an important one. See you then!” And he took off.
I feel a mix of many different things right now: shock, confusion, satisfaction, dissatisfaction, pride. I’m proud that I tried so hard to tell him the things that were important to me. I’m absolutely thrilled that we spent so much time together; that he invited me to have dinner with him!! It was definitely a game changer for us. But I’m confused about his mixed signals…. he clearly wanted to spend a vast amount of time with me but he kept pulling back. Naturally, I wish he’d have returned the intensity of my hug. Is this how he felt when we were dating?
Running to work now…. looking very much forward to anyone’s thoughts!!!
Re: the ex-GF [?]
-I asked him where he is going to the beach this summer (his ex [?] runs a beach club. He said he’d “surely be going to his male friend’s beach club called X.” His ex [?] runs a beach club called Y.
– He was telling me about a female friend of his whose dog farts a lot. I said, “What kind of dog?” and he said, “A rottweiler”. His ex [?] has a dachsund.
-At one point, an hour into our conversation, his phone rang. He answered it and said, “Oi! Can’t talk. I’ll call you back in a bit.” I heard a woman’s voice on the other end: “oh…. ok.” He didn’t look at his phone once for the next 5 hours.hmmm….
!!!!!
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